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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Cecilia, You might already know about these articles, but given the nature of your interest, you might be interested in: James A. Brundage, ‘”Cruce signari”: The Rite for Taking the Cross in England,’ /Traditio/, 22 (1966), 289-310 and also his ‘A Note on the Attestation of Crusaders’ Vows,’ /Catholic Historical Review/, 52 (1966-67), 234-39 Lucy K. Pick, “Signaculum caritatis et fortitudinis: Blessing the Crusader’s Cross in France,” /Revue bénédictine/, vol. 105, no. 3-4 (1995), 381-416 Cheers, Jim Cecilia Gaposchkin wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and > culture Thanks all: quickly here because I am about to be late for a > 1230. I was just trying to understand the texts for the Pilgrimage > Rite/Crusading Rites in England (published by Brundage) and their > relationship to whatever other traditions they might be related to. > Much of the other material is 12 and 13th century. It is *precisely* > because I am trying to figure out what the manuscript sources and > transmissions for these are they I am muddled. > > More anon. Thanks very much to all. This is my first plunge into > English materials, and there is lots of it. > cecilia > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 11:51 AM, John Briggs > <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and > culture > > ---- Cecilia Gaposchkin <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > > > Thank you both. I think I am puzzled by how late all the > editions are - 15 > > century materials mostly. The text is Henderson is taken from a > printed > > edition of 1506, but he mentions a 15th century manuscript. I > was hoping to > > get some earlier evidence, 12th or 13century; but perhaps it > doesn't exist. > > I have Frere in my office, but will dig up Dickinson anon. > > You still haven't given us a clue as to what you are looking for. > Essentially, it is all "late". One of the useful things Pfaff has > to say (although I haven't got that far in his book yet!) is that > the idea of a "uniform" rite (Tridentine Rite, Book of Common > Prayer) is an artefact of printing. Such uniformity is just not > possible with manuscripts, and the effect of the early printed > editions is to make e.g. the Sarum Rite appear more uniform than > it can ever have been in practice. That is one reason why we all > concentrate on the final form of such Uses (i.e. circa 1500). > > Another reason is that although the Sarum Use was the most > 'successful' in England, it makes a slow start. The diocese wasn't > really created until the 11th century, and the Sarum Use must only > have developed in the 12th. There are no really early materials, > and they relate only to Salisbury Cathedral itself. I don't think > there is anything for parish church use surviving from earlier > than the 14th century. (I assime that you are interested in parish > 'occasional' services - that is really the only reason to be > looking in a Manual.) > > For early manuscript versions of the Missal you should be looking at: > > J. Wickham Legg, The Sarum Missal: Edited from three early > manuscripts (Oxford, 1916, Reprinted 1969.) > > John Briggs > > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion > to: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > For further information, visit our web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > > > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it > to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the > message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order > to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, > visit our web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html