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Thanks Crispin I take your point that it would be good data-management practice to avoid the front end compromising primary data and I agree totally that the display method should be driven by what you want to get out of it and by the intended audience. Kind regards Robin -----Original Message----- From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Crispin Flower Sent: 09 December 2009 12:23 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Bomb damage as a monument Agreed, the requirements for effective presentation of heritage data may lead to multiple layering etc, but it should be possible to derive such presentation output from core data, rather than allowing this to compromise how the primary data is managed. The most simple illustration of this... (for anyone who is not convinced ;-) ... it is sometimes very useful to be able to show just the extents of a single monument on a map (in an interactive map); this does not mean each monument should have its own "layer". Another more complex scenario is where people occasionally manage data in layers organized by period. This is great for presentation, but extremely bad for data management for obvious reasons. Ditto by "theme" (e.g. defensive vs domestic, etc) or just about anything in fact. All these should be output by selection (views, queries, SQL), using whatever selection methods are fit for the particular output purpose or audience. Just noticed this not much to do with bombs anymore - could discuss further off-list if you want! cheers Crispin From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of PAGE, Robin Sent: 09 December 2009 11:16 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Bomb damage as a monument For internal purposes fine, but what if you want to make your data available on an interactive public GIS system? Robin -----Original Message----- From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Crispin Flower Sent: 09 December 2009 11:01 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Bomb damage as a monument Good point Andy. Much better to do this than fragment the data into different datasets/layers. Remember HBSMR can do this easily, by toggling the map display between showing all records and just the current selection. Cheers Crispin From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kirkham, Andy (DSD) Sent: 09 December 2009 10:00 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Bomb damage as a monument Hi. On the subject of the polygon blotting the GIS visuals. Most GIS packages now offer ways around this and simply not displaying every record (ArcGIS - definition queries?) is valid as long as you do a digital spatial search rather than a visual one. This is the true strength of GIS. We do still have a tendency to see GIS as if it should be able to do everything all at once. Cheers - Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cain Hegarty Sent: 09 December 2009 09:34 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Bomb damage as a monument Nick, This is the kind of information that might be recorded from APs and transcribed as part of NMP-style aerial survey projects as an 'extent of area' record, i.e. a simple polygon area-defined feature, (as you might for other less easily defined WWII military sites and landscapes such as training areas or firing ranges). So any mid-1940s orthophotography you already have may prove to be an easy way to define the area. However I can see it might be the thin end of the wedge to carrying out further similar work, and it would of course blot a large urban area with a single mon-polygon, which I can see might not be desirable. All the best Cain ________________________________ From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Boldrini Sent: 09 December 2009 09:13 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Bomb damage as a monument hi folks I have received some information about an area of a town being bombed in World War II. Does anyone record this sort of information in their HER? If so, how? I remember a thread a while back about bomb craters, but as this bit of town has been redeveloped there are no visible remains, just historic accounts. I can see various pros and cons to it . Pro - it means a significant number of the buildings in the affected area are likely to be post WWII in date (not always obvious from a desk); likely to have affected archaeology survival, also potential for UXB's (unexploded bombs) Cons - If I start doing this there is a whole other HER project to do it systematically (ok not really a con, but something to consider); how do you define the area affected? So any thoughts appreciated. best wishes Nick Boldrini Historic Environment Record Officer Countryside Service Economic and Rural Services Business and Environmental Services North Yorkshire County Council County Hall Northallerton DL7 8AH Direct Dial (01609) 532331 Nick Boldrini covers archaeological development control work for Selby District ONLY. 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