 |
 |
Hi Frank! Good to have this conversation! I once worked with a drama teacher, and we got some splendid stories both told and written and illustrated in several languages. One that I specially remember was a scary story ( that was the theme) told by a boy in a Chinese dialect/language to his Urdu speaking peer and then retold in English by the Urdu speaker to the whole group. Afterwards there was a splendid illustrated book of this by the Chinese boy- in Chinese.- and other work, of course, by the rest of the group, mostly in English. I think there was collaboration for the Chinese story so that we had a bilingual illustrated book. I wish I still had it! What was so special was that all the children- it was a year 7 or 8 class- really got into the stories in the other languages. Of course the storytellers were superb in their use of mime and vocal effects. It really created an understanding of the abilities in their mother tongues of those speakers, by the rest of the largely monolingual English class in Northeast London. As well as a realisation that communication could take place without even knowing the language that was being spoken. i'LL GO TO YOUR LINK. Thanks Norma Norma Brewer [log in to unmask] --- On Fri, 11/12/09, F.Monaghan <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: F.Monaghan <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: translating instructions - 3 key languages To: [log in to unmask] Date: Friday, 11 December, 2009, 9:32 Hi Norma, The talk is not really about translation, it’s just one of the teacher techniques she describes and doesn’t feature in the first talk at all (number 4 I think!). I did do some work with primary children in Wales once as part of an EU project (Fabula) on developing software to enable students to write bilingual stories and we found that the process of creating a bilingual version of their work meant that they didn’t just produce a translation from the English but worked to produce something that reflected their skills in both languages. We described it as ‘parallel authoring’. You might be interested to look at a paper we published in ‘Language, Culture & Curriculum’: http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a907965904&db=all Best wishes, Frank From: NORMA BREWER [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 11 December 2009 09:14 To: [log in to unmask]; F.Monaghan Subject: Re: translating instructions - 3 key languages Hi Frank! I like your argument. Do any of the videos provide evidence of the process? Thanks Norma Norma Brewer [log in to unmask] --- On Fri, 11/12/09, F.Monaghan <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: F.Monaghan <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: translating instructions - 3 key languages To: [log in to unmask] Date: Friday, 11 December, 2009, 9:08 Hi Norma, I don’t students need to produce so much a translation as a new version mediated through translation. In other words, the L1 original provides a basis for developing an English response. I would say that the experience of producing this version could provide an even more challenging ‘struggle’ than trying to directly to English unaided (by software or peer-partner) as the student knows how limited their resources in English are and will limit themselves to that. By having them produce what is likely to be a much richer version in their stronger language first there is a basis for a richer English version too. Also, the process of negotiating the meanings in both languages may anchor the embedded concepts and language more firmly. The discussion with their peer would provide the sort of oral work you are talking about. And there’s nothing wrong with crutches if your legs are feeling weak – it’s knowing when to go down to one stick and then throwing it away that’s the tricky part! Frank From: NORMA BREWER [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 11 December 2009 09:01 To: ' NORMA BREWER '; [log in to unmask]; F.Monaghan Subject: RE: translating instructions - 3 key languages I like the idea of people writing in L1 and then collaborating to write in English. It should lead to a much better impression of what it is possible to say and what people have to say, than when people are struggling with a limited grammar and lexis base. However, there is still a virtue in struggling to make the most of what English people have, and working within those bounds to create a written text. It forces realisation that a simpler form can still be effective. For many people, perhaps we also have to realise, their own competence in L1 writing may be very limited, and they may not even have access to the different genres in L1. In any case, those genres may not reflect current usage in English. A fascinating study here. I am not sure about the use of the software. Does it become a crutch- meaning people avoid getting to grips with learning the language and think they can just go to the software for an answer. Writing does mean real involvement with the language. How much rreading- and oral interaction- is built into this approach? I'll have a look at the video. Best wishes Norma Norma Brewer [log in to unmask] --- On Fri, 11/12/09, F.Monaghan <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: F.Monaghan <[log in to unmask]> Subject: RE: translating instructions - 3 key languages To: "' NORMA BREWER '" <[log in to unmask]>, "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> Date: Friday, 11 December, 2009, 8:47 I was at the recent NALDIC conference where Ofelia Garcia was talking about pairing up students with the same first language with one weaker, one stronger in English, encouraging the use of the first language in writing and then using translation (incl Google) for a version for the teacher. The production process itself providing a very valuable experience for both learners. Given the limitations of machine translation this seems a really good use of the software. Frank Ps: NALDIC is releasing an edited version of Ofelia Garcia’s talk on ‘Reimagining Bilingualism in education for the 21st century’ in which she talks about ‘translanguaging’ on YouTube in five parts. Her work is with younger students but the significance of translanguaging is applicable across the board, of course. The first part is now available http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVI41CMw6HM with the other parts to follow at weekly intervals From: ESOL-Research discussion forum and message board [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of NORMA BREWER Sent: 10 December 2009 20:59 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: translating instructions - 3 key languages Hi everybody It seems to me that translations of instructions are really only needed by learners with a very low level of ESOL, and with low m-t literacy. Learners, such as Poles, who come from countries where there is a much more effectively structured education system, are more used to the classroom experience, and likely to be more efficient at using bilingual dictionaries. Perhaps bilingual oral packs with allied bilingual literacy materials, would be more useful for learners with limited literacy experience. The likelihood of women being the major set of learners with low levels of literacy tallies with information about the extent to which girls and women have access to education in their home countries. This argues a need for empowerment being a theme in early materials. Has anyone produced a first list of instructions they re thinking of translating? I wonder what can be done with easy of access technology? greetings Norma Norma Brewer Norma Brewer [log in to unmask] --- On Thu, 10/12/09, Allegra Carlton <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: Allegra Carlton <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: translating instructions - 3 key languages To: [log in to unmask] Date: Thursday, 10 December, 2009, 16:28 Hi Helen our experience in Southampton from the ESOL Information Service is that the largest single group of learners needing low entry levels of ESOL are Afghan (Dari, with some Pashto) and that South Asians form the next largest group of low level learners, with Urdu, Punjabi and Bengali all featuring and with low literacy a major issue. Polish learners are another large group but levels are considerably more varied and higher overall. Just for the record, we are seeing significantly more women than men at present looking for low entry levels. This information is based on enquiries, not on college enrolments, so may not reflect the whole picture, but we believe that the service is being accessed by people who haven't previously accessed ESOL. Hope this is useful. Allegra Allegra Carlton ESOL Co-ordinator ESOL Information Service CLEAR, Southamptpon On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Sunderland , Helen Charlotte <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Dear colleagues We have been asked for advice as to which three key languages to use in a translation of instructions for using a new ICT resource for teaching ESOL. As the instructions will only be translated into these three languages, (though English will be used as well) it’s important to gauge which are the three languages most commonly spoken by learners studying at Entry level. What’s your experience at the moment? Suggested languages so far have been Polish, Spanish (because of Latin Americans), Arabic, Bengali, Portuguese. Do your E1 learners read these languages? If not, which? Somali was also suggested, but I wondered if learners at this level from Somali have had much schooling and are able to read instructions in any language? Or am I making assumptions that are out of date? Advice would be really welcome. Thanks! Helen Helen Sunderland Head of ESOL, Assistant Director LLU+ at London South Bank University Tel: +44 (0)20 7815 6285 Fax. +44 (0)20 7815 6290 Postal Address: 103 Borough Road , London SE1 0AA Centre Address: Pocock House, 235 Southwark Bridge Road , London SE1 6NP Why not visit: www.lsbu.ac.uk/lluplus/ ------------------------------------------------------- ‘Our aim is to help organisations improve the quality of education and training, so that individuals with a wide range of language and learning needs can achieve success. We do this by pioneering and disseminating innovative approaches and good practice in teaching and learning.’ If you would like to be added to the LLU+ mailing list to receive our termly e-newsletter and information about LLU+ events and training, please complete this form, and return to us by email or post. Watch the LLU+ promo video and find out more about how we could help your organisation. ============================================ Email has been scanned for spam and viruses by Altman Technologies' email management service The LSBU communications disclaimer can be found at http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/ict/legal/ *********************************** ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education , University of Leeds . To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at: http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm To contact the list owner, send an email to [log in to unmask] -- Allegra *********************************** ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education , University of Leeds . To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at: http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm To contact the list owner, send an email to [log in to unmask] *********************************** ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education , University of Leeds . To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at: http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm To contact the list owner, send an email to [log in to unmask] The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302). The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302). *********************************** ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education , University of Leeds . To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at: http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm To contact the list owner, send an email to [log in to unmask] The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302). *********************************** ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education, University of Leeds. To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at: http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm To contact the list owner, send an email to [log in to unmask] *********************************** ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education, University of Leeds. To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at: http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm To contact the list owner, send an email to [log in to unmask]