1. This list is wonderful but its not a source of planning expertise.
Why not start by asking your own planning department in what
circumstances (a) they, or (b) members of the public, may want access
to information about old planning applications or decisions, and of
what age?
2. Its not useful to say that if there is a dispute about planning
consent, the onus is on the homeowner to show it is legal, not on the
authority to show that it was illegal. Often, the work has been done
by a previous owner - the current owner has no records or knowledge.
If a someone else complains and asks the planning department to take
action, how will the matter be settled, in the absence of planning
records?
3. Finally, what is the data protection issue here, particularly as we
don't seem to be discussing putting the archive online? People
submitting planning applications in the past did so in the knowledge
that the application would be held by the planning authority and
probably expected them to be held indefinitely. If necessary, delete
the page with the applicant's name. What then is the DP issue in
holding information showing that a planning application for a
particular address, homeowner's name not recorded, was received and
approved subject to specified conditions in 1983?
Maurice
On 17 Dec 2009, at 16:41, Lawrence Serewicz wrote:
> Mark,
> Good points on the those "without but needing planning permission"
> changes". The 2003 retention guidelines suggested that the transfer
> of the planning application register to the Archivist once
> complete. All other records referred to the Archivist to sample.
>
> A scheme of works, if started, I would think would attract planning
> permission at the start. If it was started, and then retrospective
> permission was requested, it would still be caught by the system.
> If someone built something and were found not to have applied for
> building permission, I would think the onus was on them to show that
> it was legal, rather than the authority to show that it was illegal.
>
> I may be simplifying the process , but the police ask that I supply
> my driving licence so that I can prove I can drive rather than me
> asking the police to prove that I cannot drive. :)
>
> The listed building is that these are permanent.
>
> My main concern is that by holding documents longer than needed and
> then scanning them, to hold them even longer and access them,
> creates data protection issues as well as records management issues.
>
> If I sign a document, fully expecting that the document will be
> destroyed after 5 years but then find that it has been scanned and
> saved for 10, and lots of people are accessing it, then I would have
> some data protection concerns. I realize that I am blurring two
> processes, but I am trying to think through the DP issues of
> retrospective scanning, in that it creates an ease of access that
> does not always exist for paper documents.
>
> Best,
>
> Lawrence
>
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> ] On Behalf Of Mark van Harmelen
> Sent: 17 December 2009 14:48
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Data protection question (back
> scanning old planning applications) proportionate?
>
> Hi Lawrence
>
> Owners of buildings can and do make changes to buildings without
> planning permission, under circumstances where they should have
> obtained planning permission.
>
> Further, within a scheme of works that has planning permission,
> owners can and do make changes that would require further planning
> permission.
>
> The time period before these 'without but needing planning
> permission' changes become legal changes is I believe 20 years. Up
> to that time Council Planning Enforcement Officers can get works
> without permission removed.
>
> It can be exceedingly valuable, for council staff (planners,
> planning enforcement officers) and definitely for members of the
> public who are affected by building changes, to see at least the
> last twenty years of planning applications. Thus there is a very
> strong public interest reason to retain old planning records.
>
> While it is common practice to cull some of the content of planning
> application records when they go into long term storage within a
> council, I believe that the entire application and the Council's
> internal planning application notes should also go into storage.
>
> I would go further, and argue that planning records should be
> retained beyond 20 years, because there could be reason to quote
> precedence in a new planning application. Equally, for listed
> buildings, a record of changes over time forms a valuable historical
> artefact.
>
> This all assumes that I have the 20 year time period correct, there
> definitely is such a period, but it may be different to 20 years,
> although that length of period is my strong recollection of a
> comment from a planning officer.
>
> regards
> mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Lawrence Serewicz <[log in to unmask]
> > wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> A DP question, that relates to records management, there is a desire
> to capture old planning applications from a previous council and to
> do this electronically. I can see the need to have them captured
> electronically going forward, but I am not sure about the
> proportionality or the necessity of it going back over previous
> years. When I say previous years, I mean outside the normal
> retention period. My concern is that we are holding personal
> information longer than needed.
>
> My view is that if the documents are destroyed and a certificate
> issued, then we are covered. My concern is that if the document is
> scanned and saved, we are doing a process that is unnecessary and
> potentially disproportionate.
> In other words, if we have disposed of them properly, in accordance
> with our retention guidelines, then we are covered in that regard
> and any cost of having to recover documents, say from land registry,
> is smaller than the cost of scanning and potential breaches of the
> DPA.
>
> How have people dealt with the proportionality argument with holding
> or scanning and retaining old planning applications?
>
> I would be interested in your views and experience.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lawrence
>
> Lawrence W. Serewicz
>
> Principal Information Management Officer
> Durham County Council
> Rivergreen Centre
> Aykley Heads
> County Durham
> DH1 5TS
> 0191-370-8804
>
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