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Would never have been Catholic. Springs springing up from earth ('fonts') later in Churches. Sea was always a symbol of death. Observe Noah and the ark preserving people of God from death, Jonah,rescued in whale and Celtic saints emarng nhite martyrdoms on small coracles and boats or sea creatures, trusting to the Will of God.  Could be baptised n rivers though or more usually springs of living water, bubbling from the earth.

Ev N


From: stephen buckley <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, 30 November, 2009 8:55:40
Subject: Living water


 

 

The concept of 'living water' comes from Judaism into Christianity. A natural 'mikveh' in terms of the Jewish religion is a spring, a flowing river or stream, or a large body of water (pool or lake). The 'Sea' of Galilee seems to be included, because it's fresh water. What's come to be known as a mikveh is an artificial one, and there are all kinds of rules about being filled, at least partly, by rainwater. No human work should be done to fill the mikveh. Something defined as a mikveh has to be involved in lustral bathing, to cleanse from ritual defilement, such as by blood, through total immersion - hence the priest passing by the victim in the Good Samaritan parable, because if he touched the wounded man he'd have to go and have a bath afterwards, which was clearly not convenient at that time. Christ's baptism in the Jordan is an example of the use of a river as mikveh; hence the insistence in some denominations on total immersion, and the adult-sized fonts in early baptisteries. Because sickness was associated with sin at the time, lustral bathing at special places - most famously the Pool of Bethesda, where the water sometimes bubbled as it rose - was said to offer healing. (The New Testament story of the healing at the Pool is intended to show that health can be obtained in other ways.)


The idea of 'living water' can be tracked in Old Testament quotes, in places like Leviticus. Of course, other cultures had the concept of lustral bathing and healing wells, just that Jewish ideas are well recorded from what is pre-history in most cultures, and they're still accessible. There are several refs in the New Testament to 'living water' in metaphorical terms, for the new life that's conventionally offered in Christianity (some members of my husband's congregation haven't quite got the hang of it).

 

We know that salt water has antiseptic properties. Salt was known in OT times as a preservative, and has its own role in Judaeo-Christian ritual and symbolism. In the preparation of holy water in Christian ritual, a pinch of salt (separately blessed) may be added. But it's in a different line of symbolism from living water.

 

That said, I have seen baptisms by total immersion in the sea; probably not C of E - would have been Church in Wales, anyway - or RC, more likely one of the evangelical denominations, who ditch a lot of ancient, esoteric rules.

 

The contamination of wells (shaft and otherwise) seems often to have been part of the destruction when communities were attacked, often by throwing animal, and human, bodies into them. A natural supply of pure water was so important - still is, in much of the world - that it determines whether a locality is habitable. Archaeologists quite often suspect that a well (usually Roman) has been ritually closed down by the deposit of debris that seems significant in some way.

 

There may be various natural reasons for a well to become brackish, and in pre-scientific ages, magic or something spiritual would be suspected, if not direct malice. In more practical communities, perhaps they just chucked a few more live trout into the well.

 

Isn't the Droitwich spring water thought to drain from the Lickeys?


Christine B



========================================
Message Received: Nov 30 2009, 06:40 AM
From: "Nancy Rieser"
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc:
Subject: Re: Wales - Wells

 

I am not an academic, but the literature that I have read over the years has cited the following common belief: 

 

If a holy well turns brackish, the assumption was that somehow it had been defiled spiritually by one or more people.  Once that happens, the well's purpose as a site of healing sours and dies, turning the fresh water salty.

 

Nancy Rieser



From: Beatrice Hopkinson
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sun, November 29, 2009 10:14:25 PM
Subject: Re: Wales - Wells

Dear Eve,

    I am not clear why you feel the sea is 'dead' - the waves indicate a
'living' body of circulating water - sub-artesian springs (to the best of
my belief there are no spouting springs in the UK?) empty into wells and
as far as I know you can see no 'bubbling' .  The wonder of these springs
is that they kept flowing (though there were interruptions during drought
that affected some wells.  Flowage was not affected in the Droitwich
brine springs even when fresh water wells were affected during a drought
in the 19th century. 

Bea





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>Springs bubbling up from the earth are sacred to Th Church as a sign of
>'living' water, whereas the sea water is 'dead'


Beatrice Hopkinson,
Hon. Secretary Los Angeles Branch, Oxford University Society
Board Member, Archaeological Institute of America
President, Droitwich Brine Springs and Archaeological Trust
Affilliate, Cotsen institute of Archaeology, UCLA
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818 766 7780