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Lawrence, I think you are identifying the answer yourself when you use the analogy of the central nervous system. The medical profession is able to identify a faulty nervous system by symptoms elsewhere in the body and therefore take the absence of symptoms as an indication that the nervous system is functioning correctly or at least adequately. In practical terms, you could dissect a body and look at a healthy nervous system, but there wouldn't be much left of the body by the time you have finished (and, realistically, the nervous system is no longer healthy!). In the same way, good records management is inseparable from a correctly functioning organisation. That then gives you the problem of how you evaluate just how well an organisation is actually functioning.... Hope I haven't stretched the analogy too far! Donald -----Original Message----- From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Serewicz Sent: 05 November 2009 11:46 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: What does good records management look like? Donald, I agree that this may work on the surface, but does this reduce RM to filing? I would have thought RM has a wider role within the performance culture. If RM can be reduced to good filing or having a good file plan, it might be so deeply embedded that RM ceases to be RM and it is about basic organisational management. For many councils this will be a HUGE challenge. By that I mean how many staff are trained to file properly? How many are given induction with filing with the relevant document meta data? I realize that the advent of PCs changed the system. From my perspective it appears RM is focused on files and folders when most people do not organise their work or their lives in that manner. Is RM trying to fit 21st century practices to an 18th century structure? There is a large assumption made that people know how to use their PCs properly or that they will follow the proper filing system. We can create command and control systems that will not allow staff to save documents without creating the requisite meta data and the classification. What appears to happen is that most people muddle through and find a system that works and is not replicated across the service let alone across the Council. A great way to look at this is if someone vanishes from a post. How easily would the organisation be able to pick up their work programme and understand what was currently being done in that post. I fear that most people when they arrive in a new post (huge assumption to simplify the argument) jettison what has gone before and they go about organising the post and their work to suit their needs and their approach. In effect the are ram without being cognisant or aware of the wider RM. I am probably blurring the line between RM and Knowledge Management (KM) but my concern is that RM is seen as something abstract about "records" a mythical object that is created, held, and manipulated by someone else. In effect, I am suggesting a gold thread that links the frontline staff, (anyone creating information that will become a record) through he process by which it becomes a record within the system. I agree that RM, in effect, is, to use the analogy of the body, the central nervous system. In that we do not consciously force ourselves to breath in the same way that we consciously decide to walk. In effect it is all around us. All of this leads me back to asking how we know when it is done well? Is it that good performance by Councils demonstrates that they have an RM culture? Is it that we know it by its absence? Best, Lawrence -----Original Message----- From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Donald Henderson Sent: 05 November 2009 09:19 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: What does good records management look like? Keeping it as non-technical as possible, good RM satisfies the "temp test". In other words, if you describe the filing system to a temp, can they find a given piece of information in a reasonable time. If they can, your systems are good. Donald Henderson Information Compliance Manager Perth & Kinross Council -----Original Message----- From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Serewicz Sent: 04 November 2009 15:39 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: What does good records management look like? Dear All, I have been away from the list for some time, (Jan 2008) but I thought I would jump back in as my role has changed. This may be a Friday question, but what does good or successful records management look like? I know we can describe bad records management, from the total absence of RM structures and process to simply not being able to locate and extract records. What, though, is the opposite? How do we know when we have good records management? Is this a metaphysical state where the overall culture of an organisation is able to deal with requests for information well and able to support the performance management framework? I know there are arguments for "business cases" but to my mind that simply reduces RM to an economic question. I realize that compliance with ISO 15489 can be considered "good records managment" but is it simply compliance or something more? When we talk about good RM or successful RM, what is it? Perhaps the deeper question is what is the relationship between RM and the day to day work of most staff? In one sense, RM as a cultural phenomenon, rather than a "business case", is one where all staff recognise their role and responsibility towards information they create, handle, and store as well as the records that may be created as a result. Good RM would then be part of a good corporate culture whereby people are operating with a wider awareness of their RM/DPA/FOI/EIR roles and responsibilities as fits their post. RM is seen as something they do as part of their own work rather than somethign that is done to them or by someone else on their behalf. However, if this is the case (very much open to debate and discussion) then RM needs to fit more into the corporate culture perhaps through the performance management framework rather than for what many may perceive as a specialism hidden away within or around FOI/DPA (access to information) or archives. I am not suggesting Performance Indicators for RM as such, which creates its own problems, but understanding how it fits within the wider corporate culture and the day to day lives of most staff. The above is a gross simplification designed to develop debate. My concern is that the more RM is seen as a technical specialism done by someone rather than seen as part of everyone's existence [not that everyone is an RM but rather they have to be aware of RM] then the hard it will to make the "business case" or the cultural case. My apologies if this has been discussed in the archives. I scanned them but could not find this type of discussion. I would be grateful for your views on this topic. Best, Lawrence For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask] For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask] Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. 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