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David, my beloved David, you get rated X. Anne. On Oct 27, 2009, at 9:41 PM, David Miller wrote: > I love raw oysters. > > > On Oct 27, 2009, at 9:26 PM, anne prescott wrote: > >> I may seem to be mixing up my oysters with my conchs, but I >> remember reading (in Edgar Wind on pagan mysteries? may'be he's too >> respectable) that the "concha"--which can also be what we would >> call a scallop, was Roman slang for vulva. I've usually read Denny >> as making an obscene joke connecting her making herself available >> in print with making herself available otherwise. I haven't checked >> with my learned classicist sister on this, but I did check concha >> (related to our conch shell) on the Perseus on-line database, which >> put me on to the great Lewis and Short dictionary, which says that >> "concha" is a whole variety of bivalve shellfish, including the >> pearl bearing ones, and sure enough cites one Roman writer who uses >> it as slang for "cunnus," which means . . . well I think it means >> the part of Mary Wroth that Denny is making a dirty joke about. It >> also gives a whole new look to Bottecelli's Venus on the shell-- >> she's riding on a symbol of her trade (poor St. James, who carries >> the scallop shell--at least not an oyster). >> >> In my youth we didn't discuss such things with professors. >> What's important is the association of female publishing with >> sexual looseness, but that's an old story. Anne. >> >> On Oct 27, 2009, at 7:49 PM, Joel Davis wrote: >> >>> I'd like to propose a less learned possibility than either Andrew >>> or Amy, though I'm agnostic about which is the best solution: >>> >>> Perhaps Denny begins with something like Andrew suggests, >>> comparing Wroth to the inquisitive mouse, but then, realizing he >>> has hit upon an especially nasty slur, he abandons his metaphor. >>> The pattern seems pretty similar to invectives in Nashe and >>> Shakespeare. It might be that the decorum for a relatively low >>> form doesn't exclude mixing metaphors... >>> >>>> Whose vaine comparison for want of witt >>>> >>>> Takes up the oystershell to play with it >>>> >>>> Yet common oysters such as thine gape wide >>>> >>>> And take in pearles or worse at every tide >>> >>> Joel >>> >>> Joel B Davis >>> Associate Professor >>> Director, MA Program in English >>> Stetson University >>> 421 N Woodland Blvd Unit 8300 >>> DeLand FL 32721 >>> 386.822.7724 >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List [SIDNEY- >>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of andrew zurcher [[log in to unmask] >>> ] >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:39 PM >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: Wroth's "oystershell" >>> >>> Hi Zack, >>> >>> I suspect it's a reference to the emblem tradition involving >>> oysters, >>> which is pretty extensive. I think it began with Alciato (see >>> 'Captivus ob >>> gulam', which is listed as no 86 from the Emblematum libellus >>> collection, >>> digitised at Glasgow: http://www.emblems.arts.gla.ac.uk). >>> >>> The basic scenario is this: some stupid mammal, usually a mouse, >>> happens >>> upon an oyster; he licks the shell, believing it to be a bone; >>> then gets >>> his head trapped inside when the oyster abruptly clams up. The >>> emblems >>> seem to focus on the way in which the mouse exposes himself to >>> ridicule, >>> after trapping and immobilizing himself. The Alciato poem makes >>> much of >>> the mouse's sensitive whiskers and inquisitive tongue. Ouch. >>> >>> >>> andrew >>> >>> >>> Andrew Zurcher >>> Queens' College >>> Cambridge CB3 9ET >>> United Kingdom >>> +44 1223 335 572 >>> >>> hast hast post hast for lyfe >>> >>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Zackariah Long wrote: >>> >>>> Dear colleagues, >>>> >>>> I'm teaching Wroth's *Pamphilia to Amphilanthus* for the first >>>> time this >>>> week and would like to frame our discussion using Denny's and >>>> Wroth's poetic >>>> back-and-forth over *Urania*. There are some lines in Denny's >>>> poem that >>>> have been puzzling me: >>>> >>>> Whose vaine comparison for want of witt >>>> >>>> Takes up the oystershell to play with it >>>> >>>> Yet common oysters such as thine gape wide >>>> >>>> And take in pearles or worse at every tide >>>> >>>> Now I'm pretty sure what's going on in the bawdy second two lines >>>> but the >>>> first reference to the oystershell--"Takes up the oystershell to >>>> play with >>>> it"--gives me pause. I understand that in terms of the metaphor >>>> Wroth is >>>> surface without substance, only a "shell" of wit without the >>>> "pearl" inside >>>> (which must be, ummm, "deposited" from without), but is there >>>> anything else >>>> going on here? Does it mean something particular to "take up" or >>>> "play with" >>>> the oystershell? This sounds like a contemporary expression >>>> whose meaning >>>> is lost for me. I've searched the OED, but nothing seems >>>> definitive. >>>> >>>> Any assistance would be appreciated. Many thanks in advance... >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Zack Long >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Zackariah Long >>>> 211 Sturges Hall >>>> Department of English >>>> Ohio Wesleyan University >>>> 61 S. Sandusky St. >>>> Delaware, OH 43015 >>>> Office phone: (740) 368-3596 >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> >> >