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Alison, When someone asks for information and gets "google it" as an answer, that may mean you've hit one of the rare subjects that nobody on the list knows enough about to say "The best place to start is x." I have to admit that I'm not very good at predicting what will get a response or what will lead into a lengthy discussion about something tangential to the starting post. Even though it sometimes seems like a screwed-up family where every subject leads to the same conversation, I haven't always been right on the rare occasions when I've written something thinking "This will get Terry going" or "Ken will choke on this one" or whatever. I definitely fall on the practitioner side of the practitioner/philosopher gulf you mention. There are times when I decide that following a given argument isn't something I can afford to do and sometimes it isn't something I even want to do. I also realize that plenty of people will get five words into many of mine and say "Gunnar is yammering about graphic designers' relations with clients--how narrow and parochial can this guy get?" But I can thank this list for many important insights over the years and I know that many of the "philosophers" do care how what they are thinking fits with what designers are doing and thinking. The seeming Tower of Babel does move us upward. The nice thing about a generalist field like design and a broad discussion like this one is that we're all in our own ways clearly unqualified to speak. So do post questions, statements, observations, whatever. And if you don't get a satisfying answer, try posting them again before you give up. Gunnar ---------- Gunnar Swanson Design Office 1901 East 6th Street Greenville, North Carolina 27858 USA [log in to unmask] +1 252 258 7006 at East Carolina University: +1 252 328 2839 [log in to unmask]