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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture OK, Good. But what was the value of the candle? Did the church use these candles? Were they used to light the church? Was the wax sold for income? It clearly had alot of symbolic capital.  What I'm not getting is the ultimate value of the votive object.  Was it practical? Economic? purely symbolic?  Were these candle used? lighted?

cecilia



On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Andrew Larsen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Andre Vauchez has an interesting article about how Italian cities managed saints cults partly through donations of candles.  In at least one city, they sent an official around to check if the church in question was keeping the city's (massive) candle on its altar all year.  Those that didn't were penalized.  The gift of the candle was a sign of official approval by the city.

Andrew E. Larsen


On Oct 19, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Dr Jim Bugslag wrote:

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

This is a large subject, and I have never seen any really good study of it, but you are certainly right about the votive use of candles.  It was common for someone to be "measured for a candle" in relation to an expected miracle cure at the shrine of a saint, the candle in question being either the length of the person or their weight.  There were also trindles, which were long tapers, usually wound into a skein.  The city of Chartres annually offered one to the cathedral that was as long as the circumference of the city walls.  And there were all sorts of miraculous candles, as well.  I believe that S. Maria Maggiore in Rome claimed one of four candles that were believed to have descended from heaven around the Virgin Mary at the birth of Christ, and in the early 11th century, the Virgin showed up in person at Arras, leaving the Holy Candle there, with instructions on how to use its wax to cure the mal des ardents.  It was usually believed that such candles could burn without being consumed, and other miraculous candles were often created using bits of their wax.
Cheers,
Jim

Cecilia Gaposchkin wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Hello all,
I'm just now catching up on this thread, and it catches my attention because I have just been reading some miracle and pilgrimage stories, and everyone is always pledging candles, and giving candles, and buying candles - candles of quite enormous proportions: candles the length of the tomb, candles the length of a sick son, candles the length and shape of a lame leg, and so forth - to the shrine.

When, as a graduate student, I used to lecture at the Cloisters, I had some pithy and almost certainly inaccurate line about the desire for light in churches, the "donations" of candles and [ahem, this is where it becomes methodologically dubious], and appearance of stained glass with Gothic architecture and the "desire" for "light".
I'm not really asking for an explanation of that crazy argument. But rather, if we're talking about medieval lighting, can anyone talk abit about the function/economics/aesthetics/and/osprituality of the "candle" in the medieval churches.   It seems alot of people were spending alot of money - even money they didn't have much of - on candles.

cecilia



On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM, John McCulloh <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

   medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
   culture

   I had just looked up the reference to suggest the same article.
    It is fascinating reading.  Ekirch presents evidence that, before
   the advent of cheap electrical  lighting, people went to bed at
   dusk woke up around midnight to relieve themselves, eat and
   socialize, and then nodded off for their "second sleep."

   For medievalists it suggests that monks getting up in the middle
   of the night were not really practicing asceticism.  They were
   following a typical sleep pattern.  The monastic element in their
   vigils was their prayer.

   John

   John M. McCulloh
   Professor                                               Office
   tel:  785-532-0373
   Department of History                                   Deptal
   tel:  785-532-6730
   Eisenhower Hall                                         FAX:            785-532-7004
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   ----- Original Message -----
   From: "Shannon McSheffrey" <[log in to unmask]
   <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
   To: [log in to unmask]
   <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
   Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:21:35 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
   Subject: Re: [M-R] Medieval lighting

   medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
   culture

   On preindustrial sleeping patterns, some might find this article
   interesting: A. Roger Ekirch, "Sleep We Have Lost: Pre-industrial
   Slumber in
   the British Isles," The American Historical Review 106:2 (April, 2001)
   http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/106.2/ah000343.html.

   Shannon

   Dr. Shannon McSheffrey
   Professor and Chair, Department of History
   Concordia University
   1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. W.
   Montreal, Quebec  CANADA  H3G 1M8

   [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>

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