Peter, I can see your point that Sheppard's mag may have a tendency towards exclusivity, perhaps he sees poetics as something that can only be fruitfully discussed within an academic framework, a pseudo- science, if you like. On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:40:50 +0100, Peter Riley <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >O shit. It's been a dreadful week. > >Geraldine --- I withdraw and apologise unconditionally. That was a >very wrong thing of me to say. I was carried away. I thought perhaps >you hated all universities. > >But it seems there's something particularly evil about Cambridge >University. There's a lot to resent about the place but I can't see it >like that. There are people in this University, as in others, doing >extremely valuable work in all sorts of fields (including ecology, >global developmental studies, anthropology, medicine... I don't >necessarily include poetry as one of those fields). To them it is a >place of work. Of course there are all sorts of privileges still >attached to the place, as equally to Oxford and to many of what we >contemptuously used to call "red-brick" universities. The private >school intake is still entirely disproportionate and it's a disgrace, >though I think the best solution would be simply to ban private >education. > >If CLR was "reviewed" in TLS (actually it wasn't reviewed at all; >Campbell's column is a joke thing on the back page which lists things >in order to scoff at them; when TLS reviews it reviews properly) >because it is from Cambridge University, which as I said it isn't, >that's only because Campbell is from Oxford University and saw an >opportunity to act out that boring old animosity. I think he's also a >friend of Craig Raine, who was somewhat criticised. > >Anyway I'm not a denizen of this University and I'm not responsible >for it. Nor are a lot of other contributors to CLR. And Boris Jardine >and Lydia Wilson devoted on enormous amount of work and care to CLJ, >including making sure it fairly represented what this town has meant >in poetry, and all they get is aggression deflected from hatred of the >University. > >The Journal of British and Irish Innovative Poetry seems to be a far >more academic, university-bound, production, than CLR. I doubt if >anybody not in the employ of a university wd have a chance of being >published in it. And it doesn't print poetry at all. Not that there's >anything necessarily wrong with this, but there seems to be an >onslaught against CLR as the product of an academy when what it is is >simply a literary magazine with a particular focus. There is an >interesting account in it of a homosexual encounter between a young >poet and a well-known monk -- not the sort of thing that would find >its way into Robert Sheppard's magazine, I think. > > > >Peter > > > > >On 14 Oct 2009, at 13:13, Geraldine Monk wrote: > >Peter, >How on earth can you conclude that I 'imply that on one has the right >to a higher education at all' from what I said!! I'm totally >flabbergasted by your conclusion. There is absolutely nothing I said >that you can remotely construe this ridiculous implication. I have >never come across such a willful misreading (or to be more exact an >imaginary reading). I did not say that and as someone who benefitted >from an higher education I do not and never had believed such a >thing. I'm actually very angry about this Peter because people don't >read these lists with great care (as you demonstrate here) and stupid >comments like this often stick even when you haven't' said them. > >I was not being personal - I was not talking about students >backgrounds - I was saying that Cambridge University is a privileged >and prestigious institution - that is indisputable (well to everyone >except you Peter). If anyone else on this list brought out a mag from >say Sheffield or Leicester or Portsmouth or Wherever do you think it >would get a mention in TLS - of course it wouldn't. That was part of >my point. You are complaining about a review that has only come about >because of its Cambridge connection. I merely said the rest of us >would welcome such attention. > >In fact I wonder if The Journal of British and Irish Innovative >Poetry edited by Scott Thurston and Robert Sheppard and with an >editorial board covering every university in the world (I exaggerate >but it's very extensive) has been reviewed in TLS? If not I think it >proves my point about privilege. > >Higher Education For All, > >Geraldine > > >