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Jeff / would you rather academics didn't talk about 'innovative' poetry? its not as if the appearance of the journal means that poetry is suddenly locked up in the university and no-one else can talk about it. maybe, instead, it can work alongside non-academic activities - Openned, The Other Room and suchlike. I think the kneejerk dismissal of universities going on round here is rather reactionary, as if it was still the 1950s and universities were still strictly for the middle and upper classes, which is no longer the case, and hasn't been for a long time (and, Jeff, on your part rather hypocritical, seeing as only a few weeks ago you were trying to get us all to read your thesis, and telling us how a chapter of it was about to be published in a peer reviewed journal etc). its also rather alarming to see people lining up to slag off a magazine they haven't even seen yet. maybe its going to be great. give it a chance, yeh? Sean http://abandonedbuildings.blogspot.com/ --- On Wed, 21/10/09, Jeffrey Side <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: Jeffrey Side <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Journal of British and Irish Innovative Poetry launch at Birkbeck (Weds 21st October 2009) To: [log in to unmask] Date: Wednesday, 21 October, 2009, 7:22 PM Geraldine, I don’t feel threatened personally as I do not align myself to any particular poetic school. But I see the “acadamisation” of poetry as largely unfavourable to its larger practice and dissemination without the academy. I see poetry as a cottage industry, not as a corporation. We have seen how once an art form is passed over to the academy, its vitality is weakened. Besides, I think that academic study of “writing practice” as opposed to merely studying the reception of poetry is too prescriptive an approach to poetic composition. Poets should be allowed to choose how they approach composition, without concerning themselves about having to formulate a contrived rationale to explain how they do it. This is an approach I don’t think Robert or Scott would find appealing. On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:33:23 +0100, Geraldine Monk <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >Jeffrey, >You seem aggressively negative and confrontational about this journal. Do you feel it threatens you personally because that is how your constant anxieties are coming across. > >Like Alison says (and Mark echoes here) who wants a beige journal or even worse taupe - yuk! > >G. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeffrey Side > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:41 PM > Subject: Re: Journal of British and Irish Innovative Poetry launch at Birkbeck (Weds 21st October 2009) > > > I think this journal, though, is setting out to be less impartial and more > catholic. If this is not the case, then fair enough, but it should come > clean about it. > > > > On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:33:23 -0400, Mark Weiss > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > >Does anybody really want an impartial journal? It's not a trial by > >jury--any journal worth its salt casts a wide net but develops a > personality. > > > >At 11:29 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote: > >>Quote: "It's usually not a list of peer-reviewers, but of advisors who > >>funnel the work of others to the journal." > >> > >> > >>Mark, that is even more of a concern, as impartiality will be > threatened. > >>So, given this funnelling by these advisors who are also the peer- > >>reviewers, how much credibility can we now give this venture? > >> > >>This could lead to yet another clique forming within the non- > mainstream > >>arena. > >> > >> > >>On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:23:24 -0400, Mark Weiss > >><[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> > >> >It's usually not a list of peer-reviewers, but of advisors who funnel > >> >the work of others to the journal. > >> > > >> >At 11:14 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote: > >> >>When you say: > >> >> > >> >>"The people on the editorial board by the way are basically there > as > >> >>peer-reviewers" > >> >> > >> >>This means that anonymity will be taken out of the peer- review > >>process- > >> >>-this can't be a good thing surely? For peer review to work > properly > >>one > >> >>shouldn't know who is likely to be vetting their contributions. It > could > >> >>lead to people being unwilling to submit work, which would > >>detrimental > >> >>to the aims of the journal. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:31:39 +0100, Elizabeth James > >> >><[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >Quite. Consider the possibility that academic discourse might > >>actually > >> >>be as > >> >> >interesting and rewarding, intellectually / creatively, as poetry > >>(reading > >> >> >or writing); and then getting to be allowed to apply that mind, > in > >>work > >> >> >time, to the exciting, difficult and intelligent poetry you already > >>love in > >> >> >the evenings ... To me it looks like a coup, rather than a > defence. > >> >> > > >> >> >The proclaimed inclusion of 'poetics' will complicate that > argument, > >> >> >admittedly. > >> >> > > >> >> >The people on the editorial board by the way are basically > there as > >> >> >peer-reviewers, and do'nt run the journal. Well that's how it is > for > >>me > >> >> >anyway. I am proud to be among them, furry hoodies and Latin > >>graces > >> >> >notwithstanding ... > >> >> >e > >> >> > > >> >> >----- Original Message ----- > >> >> >From: "Alison Croggon" <[log in to unmask]> > >> >> > > >> >> >Gosh. That seems fairly sweeping. What if, rather than > stemming > >>from > >> >> >"insecurity", it's simply that it's interesting and stimulating to > >> >> >think in a disciplined way about practice? (Sorry, praxis...) I > >> >> >certainly find such things interesting to read. And I just don't > get > >> >> >this idea that journals of whatever stripe ought to be wholly > >>without > >> >> >agendas, since I don't understand how that would be at all > >>desirable > >> >> >or interesting - surely it would just mean beige all round? I And > >> >> >don't we all, as Borges pointed out, make our own canons? > >> >> > > >> >> >xA > >> > > >> >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry > (University > >> >of California Press). > >> >Forthcoming in November 2009. > >> >http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University > >of California Press). > >Forthcoming in November 2009. > >http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.24/2449 - Release Date: 10/20/09 18:42:00 > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com