Brian Parker wrote

 

“I am aware of the different skill sets you talk about and agree that it is a matter of recognising the similarities and differences. I think what I am alluding to with the postulation of an 'overriding' body is just that, a body that recognises the differences and similarities and can tease out the core values and skills that are common to all, and help to promote, manage and represent them in this changing world we operate in.”

 

List members might find it useful to look at the knowledge and information management skills framework, published by the Knowledge Council last June – you can see it here

 

http://gkimn.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/story7.htm

 

 

 

Nicely put Clare

 

I am fortunate in having been an IT professional as well as a Records Management professional over the past 4 decades, so have been best placed to see the need for cooperation and closer working between the two disciplines, as they impact each other. And this need has accelerated exponentially over the past 'few' years, and is likely to do so into the foreseeable future

 

I am aware of the different skill sets you talk about and agree that it is a matter of recognising the similarities and differences. I think what I am alluding to with the postulation of an 'overriding' body is just that, a body that recognises the differences and similarities and can tease out the core values and skills that are common to all, and help to promote, manage and represent them in this changing world we operate in.

 

Bryan

 

 

 

From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cowling Clare
Sent: 11 September 2009 12:06
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FW: Accreditation

On the other hand the specific skill sets required to be a librarian or an archivist or a records manager are quite different, despite our similar aims (i.e. to improve access to information).  I’ve worked as both an archivist and a records manager and, with apologies to all the brilliant librarians/information/knowledge professionals I’ve worked with both in Oz and in this country, I suffered greatly in the dim distant past at the hands of librarians who, for example, wanted bound records in the archives to be ripped apart so they could be re-arranged by subject (and it was so).   

 

Of course the above wouldn’t happen now, but the various information professions do have differing, though complementary, focuses (focii?) and as a records manager who has moved around a lot I have always found that the RM focus is dependent on which area of the business I’m bunged under, making it sometimes extremely hard for me to attend to what I think is most important (information compliance and disposal, in case anyone cares and/or wishes to dispute the value of those RM priorities).    Fortunately that’s not the case where I am now.

 

Being all under one big information umbrella could dilute any understanding on the importance of those special skills unless we are very careful to articulate the differences as well as the similarities. 

 

And yes, I now talk about information, not records.  It’s all got to be managed, whatever we call it.    And we have got to get closer to/work more effectively with the IT professionals.  Otherwise we may as well pack up and go home.

 

Clare

 

 

I will not say which organisation should take prominence. I have one observation.

 

When I think of some other sectors such as Health and Safety (IOSH - Institution of Occupational Safety and Health) and HR (CIPD - Chartered Insitute of Personnel and Development) they seem to have very obvious distinct representation that stands out immediately to someone not in those fields.

 

 

From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tinsley, Chris
Sent: 11 September 2009 11:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Accreditation

I agree with Bryan.  Although I am a member (corporate) of the RMS and chair of the SW branch I try my best to engage with the SoA and local groups like the South West Information Compliance group, because what we do are so closely related. This keeps it all fresh, gives me different viewpoints but frustrates me enormously when I see us doing so many similar things in so many different places. There are too many organisations trying to do too many things. It's a bit like "the Life of Brian", no we are not the Palestine liberation front, we are the front for the Liberation of Palestine.

Although my qualification is in Records Management I try not to use the Records word as this begs a description, I almost always use Information as it is a term which people are more comfortable with and have a better understanding of.

A few less Information, Records, Library organisations might be a good idea.

Chris Tinsley MSc
Wiltshire Council

Records, Information, Knowledge

-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bryan Parker
Sent: 11 September 2009 11:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Accreditation

Many years ago I was a m

Good points being raised here.

Many years ago I was a member of the Institute of Information Scientists (grand title) which was then amalgamated into the Library profession. At that time I chose to join the RMS, thinking it a better fit to my role.
But since then my work has spanned many of the different disciplines and the various bodies that represent them. I do not want to belong to them all!

I have watched the convergence, in practice, of the various branches of records and information management over many years, (more than 40 I am afraid to say), driven by the need to solve similar problems and often powered by new and innovative technology.

There just might be a case for an overriding body, that would look out for our profession(s) and manage all these various elements, what does the list think?

Bryan

-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Suzy Taylor
Sent: 11 September 2009 10:46
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Accreditation

I completely share Sarah's sentiments here, that between us all we have very similar skill sets and 'information management' as a profession does not benefit from being broken down into constituent parts.  I have worked in Information Services and Records Management roles and have also observed that the main purposes of the roles require the same skills.

Sorry to SoA members for forgetting to mention the SoA in my original post, not really an expert on accreditation - I always rise to criticisms of CILIP on this list because I am a Chartered member and have never seen a problem with this as proof of my professional qualification and ability, and in fact I undertook accreditation to establish that proof.  As an aside, I often feel that other Records Managers denigrate CILIP in passing.  It's not just for Librarians.

Cheers

Suzy
(member of RMS and CILIP)


Suzy Taylor
Records Manager
New College Durham
Framwellgate Moor
Durham
DH1 5ES

Tel: 0191 375 4422
E-mail: [log in to unmask]

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>>> M Sarah Wickham <[log in to unmask]> 11/09/2009 10:19 >>>
The Society of Archivists, despite the implications of its name, also represents records managers and archive conservators.  The SoA has accredited professional courses in archives & records management since 1985. The Accreditation Team visits every programme in the UK and Ireland on a quinquennial basis, and assesses them against a set of agreed criteria which are, in effect, the competency standards for the profession. Regular articles outlining the accreditation process and commenting on changes and issues for educators & the profession are published in the Journal of the Society of Archivists - most recently Turner, Margaret D.(2008)'Educational Programmes in Archives and Records Management in the UK and Ireland:An Overview,
1995-
2007' Journal of the Society of Archivists vol 29 issue 1, pages 73 - 82.  May be available via http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00379810802499942
(but you may need to subscribe).  The accreditation criteria can be seen at http://www.archives.org.uk/careerdevelopment/startingout/postgraduatecou
rs

es/revisedaccreditationcriteriaforpostgraduatecourses.html (or http://tinyurl.com/krrse3).

Given the comparatively small numbers of people working in the management of records (by which I include archives) I wonder how long we can sustain the separate professional bodies all attempting to do similar things.
Personal
accreditation is a case in point: recently introduced by the Records Management Society, the same accreditation of experience was begun by the SoA in 1987.  The SoA's scheme ("registration") has since 1996 focussed on encouraging continuing professional development rather than the one-off

accreditation of experience bringing it in line with similar CPD schemes offered by chartered professional bodies including CILIP.  Both the SoA and RMS are too small for chartered status at present. 

Along similar lines to the accreditation of professional qualifications, at present the SoA is represented on the sector skills council Lifelong Learning UK
(www.lluk.org) which includes records management in its footprint.  The sector skills council is "the independent employer-led sector skills council responsible for the professional development of staff" working in the sector and is charged with the developments of competency and qualifications frameworks, apprenticeship schemes etc.

I have worked both in archival and records management roles.  I see no

distinction between the skills required and cannot understand why they are perceived to be two different, distinct professions.  The SoA in conjunction with some of the smaller advocacy bodies in the sector are pursuing a merger -  see http://www.archives.org.uk/thesociety/archivesectorproposals.html

(http://tinyurl.com/lbbzec).  The RMS, in common with some other bodies, was invited to join at an early stage but apparently declined to take part.

Is it our professional background in classification that means that people working in recordkeeping like to distinguish themselves from one another?  My concern is that if we continue to distinguish ourselves like this then larger, more visible bodies occupy the space we consider to be "ours", as evidenced by the BIS job advert posted yesterday.  And the more we navel gaze and

distinguish ourselves by the details, the more likely we are to lose sight of the bigger, more strategic picture - and thus not be involved in the IT related discussions that affect recordkeeping and the organisations we try to serve (see previous discussions plus parallel discussion re listservs etc
etc)

Sarah
Registrar of the SoA, but also a personal member of the RMS, and who currently is based in an IT department writing in my personal capacity/expressing personal opinions...

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