Brian Parker wrote
"I am aware of the different skill sets you talk about and agree that it
is a matter of recognising the similarities and differences. I think
what I am alluding to with the postulation of an 'overriding' body is
just that, a body that recognises the differences and similarities and
can tease out the core values and skills that are common to all, and
help to promote, manage and represent them in this changing world we
operate in."
List members might find it useful to look at the knowledge and
information management skills framework, published by the Knowledge
Council last June - you can see it here
http://gkimn.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/story7.htm
<http://gkimn.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/story7.htm>
Susan Healy
Information Policy Consultant and Data Protection Officer
The National Archives
Tel 020 8392 5330 ext 2305
Email [log in to unmask]
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
From: The UK Records Management mailing list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bryan Parker
Sent: 11 September 2009 12:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Accreditation
Nicely put Clare
I am fortunate in having been an IT professional as well as a Records
Management professional over the past 4 decades, so have been best
placed to see the need for cooperation and closer working between the
two disciplines, as they impact each other. And this need has
accelerated exponentially over the past 'few' years, and is likely to do
so into the foreseeable future
I am aware of the different skill sets you talk about and agree that it
is a matter of recognising the similarities and differences. I think
what I am alluding to with the postulation of an 'overriding' body is
just that, a body that recognises the differences and similarities and
can tease out the core values and skills that are common to all, and
help to promote, manage and represent them in this changing world we
operate in.
Bryan
________________________________
From: The UK Records Management mailing list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cowling Clare
Sent: 11 September 2009 12:06
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FW: Accreditation
On the other hand the specific skill sets required to be a librarian or
an archivist or a records manager are quite different, despite our
similar aims (i.e. to improve access to information). I've worked as
both an archivist and a records manager and, with apologies to all the
brilliant librarians/information/knowledge professionals I've worked
with both in Oz and in this country, I suffered greatly in the dim
distant past at the hands of librarians who, for example, wanted bound
records in the archives to be ripped apart so they could be re-arranged
by subject (and it was so).
Of course the above wouldn't happen now, but the various information
professions do have differing, though complementary, focuses (focii?)
and as a records manager who has moved around a lot I have always found
that the RM focus is dependent on which area of the business I'm bunged
under, making it sometimes extremely hard for me to attend to what I
think is most important (information compliance and disposal, in case
anyone cares and/or wishes to dispute the value of those RM priorities).
Fortunately that's not the case where I am now.
Being all under one big information umbrella could dilute any
understanding on the importance of those special skills unless we are
very careful to articulate the differences as well as the similarities.
And yes, I now talk about information, not records. It's all got to be
managed, whatever we call it. And we have got to get closer to/work
more effectively with the IT professionals. Otherwise we may as well
pack up and go home.
Clare
Clare Cowling
Senior Compliance Adviser (Information & Records Management)
Corporate Governance Directorate
Transport for London
Windsor House, 42-50 Victoria Street, London SW1H 0TL
T: 020 7126 4236
F: 020 7126 3185
E: [log in to unmask]
Mobile: 07545200429
From: The UK Records Management mailing list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brookes, Mark
Sent: 11 September 2009 11:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Accreditation
I will not say which organisation should take prominence. I have one
observation.
When I think of some other sectors such as Health and Safety (IOSH -
Institution of Occupational Safety and Health) and HR (CIPD - Chartered
Insitute of Personnel and Development) they seem to have very obvious
distinct representation that stands out immediately to someone not in
those fields.
As clearly discussed there are lot of bodies for our profession(s).
On a seperate note I agree with Chris on the records vs information
tagging, I would always prefer to brand myself as "information" for
anyone I serve. Clearly anyone in the profession understands, but we
usually work alone with people who will never understand!
Regards
Mark
________________________________
From: The UK Records Management mailing list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tinsley,
Chris
Sent: 11 September 2009 11:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Accreditation
I agree with Bryan. Although I am a member (corporate) of the RMS and
chair of the SW branch I try my best to engage with the SoA and local
groups like the South West Information Compliance group, because what we
do are so closely related. This keeps it all fresh, gives me different
viewpoints but frustrates me enormously when I see us doing so many
similar things in so many different places. There are too many
organisations trying to do too many things. It's a bit like "the Life of
Brian", no we are not the Palestine liberation front, we are the front
for the Liberation of Palestine.
Although my qualification is in Records Management I try not to use the
Records word as this begs a description, I almost always use Information
as it is a term which people are more comfortable with and have a better
understanding of.
A few less Information, Records, Library organisations might be a good
idea.
Chris Tinsley MSc
Wiltshire Council
Records, Information, Knowledge
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Records Management mailing list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bryan Parker
Sent: 11 September 2009 11:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Accreditation
Many years ago I was a m
Good points being raised here.
Many years ago I was a member of the Institute of Information Scientists
(grand title) which was then amalgamated into the Library profession. At
that time I chose to join the RMS, thinking it a better fit to my role.
But since then my work has spanned many of the different disciplines and
the various bodies that represent them. I do not want to belong to them
all!
I have watched the convergence, in practice, of the various branches of
records and information management over many years, (more than 40 I am
afraid to say), driven by the need to solve similar problems and often
powered by new and innovative technology.
There just might be a case for an overriding body, that would look out
for our profession(s) and manage all these various elements, what does
the list think?
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Records Management mailing list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Suzy Taylor
Sent: 11 September 2009 10:46
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Accreditation
I completely share Sarah's sentiments here, that between us all we have
very similar skill sets and 'information management' as a profession
does not benefit from being broken down into constituent parts. I have
worked in Information Services and Records Management roles and have
also observed that the main purposes of the roles require the same
skills.
Sorry to SoA members for forgetting to mention the SoA in my original
post, not really an expert on accreditation - I always rise to
criticisms of CILIP on this list because I am a Chartered member and
have never seen a problem with this as proof of my professional
qualification and ability, and in fact I undertook accreditation to
establish that proof. As an aside, I often feel that other Records
Managers denigrate CILIP in passing. It's not just for Librarians.
Cheers
Suzy
(member of RMS and CILIP)
Suzy Taylor
Records Manager
New College Durham
Framwellgate Moor
Durham
DH1 5ES
Tel: 0191 375 4422
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
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>>> M Sarah Wickham <[log in to unmask]> 11/09/2009 10:19 >>>
The Society of Archivists, despite the implications of its name, also
represents records managers and archive conservators. The SoA has
accredited professional courses in archives & records management since
1985. The Accreditation Team visits every programme in the UK and
Ireland on a quinquennial basis, and assesses them against a set of
agreed criteria which are, in effect, the competency standards for the
profession. Regular articles outlining the accreditation process and
commenting on changes and issues for educators & the profession are
published in the Journal of the Society of Archivists - most recently
Turner, Margaret D.(2008)'Educational Programmes in Archives and Records
Management in the UK and Ireland:An Overview,
1995-
2007' Journal of the Society of Archivists vol 29 issue 1, pages 73 -
82. May be available via http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00379810802499942
(but you may need to subscribe). The accreditation criteria can be seen
at
http://www.archives.org.uk/careerdevelopment/startingout/postgraduatecou
rs
es/revisedaccreditationcriteriaforpostgraduatecourses.html (or
http://tinyurl.com/krrse3).
Given the comparatively small numbers of people working in the
management of records (by which I include archives) I wonder how long we
can sustain the separate professional bodies all attempting to do
similar things.
Personal
accreditation is a case in point: recently introduced by the Records
Management Society, the same accreditation of experience was begun by
the SoA in 1987. The SoA's scheme ("registration") has since 1996
focussed on encouraging continuing professional development rather than
the one-off
accreditation of experience bringing it in line with similar CPD schemes
offered by chartered professional bodies including CILIP. Both the SoA
and RMS are too small for chartered status at present.
Along similar lines to the accreditation of professional qualifications,
at present the SoA is represented on the sector skills council Lifelong
Learning UK
(www.lluk.org) which includes records management in its footprint. The
sector skills council is "the independent employer-led sector skills
council responsible for the professional development of staff" working
in the sector and is charged with the developments of competency and
qualifications frameworks, apprenticeship schemes etc.
I have worked both in archival and records management roles. I see no
distinction between the skills required and cannot understand why they
are perceived to be two different, distinct professions. The SoA in
conjunction with some of the smaller advocacy bodies in the sector are
pursuing a merger - see
http://www.archives.org.uk/thesociety/archivesectorproposals.html
(http://tinyurl.com/lbbzec). The RMS, in common with some other bodies,
was invited to join at an early stage but apparently declined to take
part.
Is it our professional background in classification that means that
people working in recordkeeping like to distinguish themselves from one
another? My concern is that if we continue to distinguish ourselves
like this then larger, more visible bodies occupy the space we consider
to be "ours", as evidenced by the BIS job advert posted yesterday. And
the more we navel gaze and
distinguish ourselves by the details, the more likely we are to lose
sight of the bigger, more strategic picture - and thus not be involved
in the IT related discussions that affect recordkeeping and the
organisations we try to serve (see previous discussions plus parallel
discussion re listservs etc
etc)
Sarah
Registrar of the SoA, but also a personal member of the RMS, and who
currently is based in an IT department writing in my personal
capacity/expressing personal opinions...
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