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Just for interest, there is a tool that you can use to display images at variable scales without users downloading either tiles or the high-res image (though it wouldn't be invulnerable to screen-grabs). We display some maps using ESRI ArcIMS (which is now called something else*), which compiles maps on the fly from tiles, line and point data. A new image is then sent out for each request. You could use a high res image split into tiles within ArcIMS and the user would only receive the reassembled image at the scale requested and cropped to fit the available area. Whether anyone does this I don't know, but I've long wanted to try - not to make it harder to access the source image file(s) but because you could probably build quite a nice interactive picture like this. Having said that, the alternatives are probably better, and if you don't already run ArcGIS they'll certainly be cheaper! Cheers, Jeremy *and I'm not quite sure if the current version works in the same way Jeremy Ottevanger Web Developer, Museum Systems Team Museum of London 46 Eagle Wharf Road London. N1 7ED Tel: 020 7410 2207 Fax: 020 7600 1058 Email: [log in to unmask] www.museumoflondon.org.uk Spectacular new ?20 million Galleries of Modern London opening at Museum of London in spring 2010. Find out more at www.museumoflondon.org.uk Before printing, please think about the environment -----Original Message----- From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Frankie Roberto Sent: 23 September 2009 09:57 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [MCG] BBC Desperate Romantics paintings James is right - the wikipedia case used an automated tool (you'd have to be pretty patient to assemble the images from screengrabs). However, any systems that displays high-res images by splitting them into tiles is going to be vulnerable to this kind of exploitation - stitching tiles back together again automatically is fairly trivial, so long as you can figure out the naming scheme. As an example, here's a particularly fetching bit of shoulder from *Christ in the House of His Parents*: http://www.bbc.co.uk/desperateromantics/paintings/assets/zif/e50f7643ffe a2bb8f12bb8b8708c6211-christ452895102/1/tile.4-5.jpg It should be remembered, though, that the main reason for splitting high-res images into tiles is for usability/performance reasons (it'd take ages to download the whole image in high multiple zoom factors, and would probably run really slowly in most browsers, eating up system memory). The security-by-obscurity is just a side effect (you wouldn't do this with text!). The main reason I gave -1 for using Flash over javascript though is that, whilst nearly all desktop browsers have some version of the Flash plugin (and the latest version of Firefox helpfully encourages people to upgrade), some devices like the iPhone, small netbooks, and the One Laptop Per Child 'xo' (of which over 1 million have been distributed to children in poor areas) aren't Flash capable. As for javascript-based solutions, there are a few around, and I think there was a discussion on this list about them only a few months back. The one I'm most familiar with is OpenLayers (http://openlayers.org/), which is designed for map tiles, but works equally well with photo tiles (and is free and open source). It's also pretty stable and well documented, and has a full javascript API - however there's a bit of a learning curve. Anyway, well done to the BBC (and their museum collaborators) for making such a nice, high-production-values site. I'm not normally a fan of old oil paintings, but the website (and the TV show) got me interested. It seems that fiction (and dramatised history) loves to use museums and galleries as a setting (I'm thinking also of the Da Vinci Code, which is also used as an example of linked data at http://www.freebase.com/). I wonder if there are ways that museums and galleries could exploit this interest more (the Louvre does a nice line in Da Vinci Code tours: http://bit.ly/Y5s3e)? Frankie 2009/9/23 James Morley <[log in to unmask]> > From what I understand in the NPG case it was all accomplished using an > established, readily available, and totally automated tool to reconstruct > high-res images from Zoomify tiles, all using data that is visible in the > source code, and files in a named directory structure (and one I don't think > you can change). > > But if you did a more bespoke tool and/or hid your urls more cleverly then > that would have to be a major deterrent. Even though technically someone > would be able to grab them (either underlying files or screen grab), the > thought of manually doing this should be daunting enough to most potential > 'thieves', surely? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > James Morley [log in to unmask] > Website Manager Tel. +44 (0)20 8332 5759 > Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew www.kew.org > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ________________________________________ > From: Museums Computer Group [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dan > Zambonini [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: 23 September 2009 08:55 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: BBC Desperate Romantics paintings > > > As a side issue, you rate it 10 for not using Silverlight and -1 for > > using Flash over JS. > > But have you (or anyone) found a good JS solution for doing similar > > things (progressive zoom)? > > The (bespoke) JS zoom tool we built for the National Gallery does > progressive zoom, and is also fairly accessible (has keyboard shortcuts, > degrades gracefully): > > http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/vincent-van-gogh-sunflowers > > > My guess is that any tool of this kind will need access to a folder > > where the images are - which are in this case open to exploitation, > > unless they were stored as binaries objects in a DB. > > There is NO way of stopping the exploitation; if you have to display the > individual tiles to the end user, then they can screen-grab them and > re-assemble them into the larger file (like in the Wikipedia case, as far > as > I understand it), no matter how they are stored/transmitted/displayed. > Putting any attempts at preventative measures into these tools, which might > aversely affect performance or usability for the vast majority of 'legal' > users, seems (to me) to be a bad idea. > > Just my 2p. > > Dan > > ---------------------------------------- > Dan Zambonini > Box UK > Internet Development and Consultancy > > t: +44 (0)29 2022 8822 > f: +44 (0)29 2022 8820 > e: [log in to unmask] > w: http://www.boxuk.com > ---------------------------------------- > > We are welcoming a new decade of growth and innovation at Box UK. Visit our > website and read the Annual Report (http://www.boxuk.com/annual-report) to > learn more. > > Registered Office Address: 6a Poland Street, London, W1F 8PT. Registered in > England and Wales No. 3606919. > > Important Information: This message may contain confidential, proprietary > or > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please > notify > the sender immediately and delete the message from your system. You should > not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other > person. > > **************************************************************** > For mcg information visit the mcg website at > http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk > To manage your subscription to this email list visit > http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email.shtml > **************************************************************** > **************************************************************** > For mcg information visit the mcg website at > http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk > To manage your subscription to this email list visit > http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email.shtml > **************************************************************** > -- Frankie Roberto Experience Designer, Rattle 0114 2706977 http://www.rattlecentral.com **************************************************************** For mcg information visit the mcg website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk To manage your subscription to this email list visit http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email.shtml **************************************************************** **************************************************************** For mcg information visit the mcg website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk To manage your subscription to this email list visit http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email.shtml ****************************************************************