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Hi Roger, I agree with that view "Americans have a profound inability to notice the aggressive element of American culture as aggression. In the international realm, the aggression is manifested in part by capitalism but I don't think that capitalism really is the heart of the problem ..." It's the "advance, excel, exploit" view of progress, even in academic credentials. Capitalism simply provides a lowest common denominator way to measure it - ie pre-school arithmetic - counting beans. Values like better or worse equate to more or less. Regards Ian On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Mourad, Roger<[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Dear Larry: your statements have spurred me to make a point that is not necessarily directed at your intent or substance of your message. It raises the topic of a hierarchical dichotomy between modern knowledge and ignorance, and the idea that the pursuit of knowledge is a human good that has been exploited by capitalism. I believe that the so-called "disinterested" pursuit of knowledge and the pursuit of capitalism have many aspects in common that cause them to work well together in the "advancement" of modernity or postmodernity globally. > > The dichotomy of enlightened secular and inferior primitive goes to the very heart of why the U.S. is widely considered with hostility or at least mixed feelings, and not just by extremists. I believe that the vast majority of Americans, including the vast majority of those who are considered "well-educated" based on credentials, do not understand how aggressive American behavior is--both in the microcosm of ordinary social life and in terms of the "advancement" of American commercial values. That aggression includes how core aspects of the profession and culture of academia are exhibited in the U.S.--the individual/institutional demand to create new knowledge and advance one's career, the demand to excel, the demand to be educated, the demand to find opportunities and exploit them. They are not wholly defined by aggression, nor is American life in general--but I believe aggression is a very salient aspect of it that goes largely unnoticed except in extreme acts. > > I think that the fundamental cross-national problem is not capitalism per se, but this pervasive aggression, and what makes it particularly acute is that Americans have a profound inability to notice the aggressive element of American culture as aggression. In the international realm, the aggression is manifested in part by capitalism but I don't think that capitalism really is the heart of the problem (perhaps this aggression repeats the European and American "conquests" of indigenous people in the name of civilization, only now it is done through international finance and the exploitation of new markets). Still, in my opinion, there is a pervasive aggression in American behavior that Americans are too ethnocentric to notice, and focusing on capitalism is apt to foreclose this consideration. Why is it so important? Because I think this aggression is experienced by non-Westerners, and perhaps most Europeans as well, as a form of violence. > > Certainly the non-Western interpreter such as Syyid Qutb brings their own fears and biases, and indeed, ethnocentrism, to the encounter with Western cultures. S/he must have been scared out of their wits! But how is the West, especially the U.S., ever going to make the world better without placing the highest priority on respecting other people and places, except in extreme instances, as an end in itself, rather than as chess piece? -best, Roger > > Roger Mourad, Ph.D., J.D. > Director, Institutional Research Dept > Washtenaw Community College > telephone: 734-677-5328 > e-mail: [log in to unmask] > fax: 734-477-8716 > > 300R Gunder Myran Building > 4800 East Huron River Drive > Ann Arbor, MI 48105 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Group concerned that academia should seek and promote wisdom [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Larry Kueneman > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:18 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Ignorance in America. > > What John Kozy says is correct, all of it. The origin of the current U.S. > mess however, he does not address. And I believe that origin to be that > while knowledge overcame ignorance in the United States as in much of the > world, capitalism overtook free enterprise. > I feel badly that my nation so stunned Syyid Qutb that he felt compelled to > write a book about what he felt were our failures (while in describing some > he is correct), but we must remember that while some of the Islamic faith do > live in a somewhat modern way, those who foment the reactionary arm of Islam > would rather live in the eighth century, and they invent their own primitive > way to treat women. The way Americans treat women is still not where it > should be, but like it or not, we can only go forward. > > Larry Kueneman > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john foster" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:03 PM > Subject: Fwd: Ignorance in America. > > >> The following article compliments Gore Vidal's proposition that his >> beloved but abandonded country is the United States of Amnesia, >> and Allan Bloom's compelling book The Closing of the American >> >> John Foster >> Victoria, Australia >> >> >> Ignorance in America. >> by Prof. John Kozy >> Global Research, July 17, 2009. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ignorance is pervasive in America; it affects the rich as well as the >> poor, the powerful and the powerless, the famous as well as the obscure. >> It's >> prevalent in the suites of our nation's CEOs, the Congress, the military, >> and even our universities. It defines this nation. >> >> >> >> Christiane Amanpour, one of CNN's stellar correspondents, presented a >> special in August 2008 titled God's Muslim Warriors. It mentioned Syyid >> Qutb's 1964 book, Milestones, which, she claims, "advocated violent jihad, >> even against Muslim governments" and inspired generations of Muslim >> radicals >> and the creation of the Muslim Brotherhood. She describes Milestones as "a >> moral indictment of America." >> >> Qutb, she says, "came to America in 1948 to study. But American >> culture shocked the scholarly Muslim poet and critic." She appears to >> quote >> (the transcript doesn't make this clear) Syed Qutb asking, "This great >> America, what is it worth in the scale of human values? I wish I could >> find >> somebody to talk with about human affairs, morality and spirit, not just >> dollars, movie stars and cars." She quotes a person named Azzam saying, >> "He >> [Qutb] used to express in some of his letters about his feelings that the >> American society is losing its soul because of its materialism. He said >> that's all they think about." She says, "Qutb wrote that Islamic values >> are >> the cure for spiritual emptiness. He urged Muslims to purge the world of >> Western influence, if necessary, by force." >> >> She interviewed Fawaz Gerges, a Lebanese born Christian, who holds >> the >> Christian A. Johnson Chair in International Affairs and Middle Eastern >> Studies at Sarah Lawrence College, who says, "Qutb resented the deep >> philosophical secular roots of American society. He resented the way women >> and men interact in society. He resented the obsessive nature of America >> materialism. He believed that America lacks ritualism." He describes Qutb >> as >> "a man who found the country to be a spiritual wasteland," and says Qutb's >> "views of America are terrifying . . . because they're narrow. They >> present >> America in very simplistic dichotomies." >> >> But Ms Amanpour makes it appear as though Qutb wrote a book that >> contained merely two sentences: "America and the Western world have a >> moral >> problem because they look at the human being only from a materialistic >> point >> of view" - a statement that many Americans would agree with - and "Islamic >> values are the cure for spiritual emptiness." How those two sentences >> could >> have inspired a jihadist movement and the emergence of the Muslim >> Brotherhood is difficult to discern. Ms Amanpour tells us what happened >> because of the publication of Milestones but by reducing the book's >> content >> to two sound-bite sentences, she leaves us completely ignorant of why it >> happened. Such cavalier treatment of Milestones is a symptom of the value >> placed on books by Americans, and I recently realized just how curious the >> status of books in American society is. >> >> Having passed the midpoint in my seventieth year of life, my wife and >> I decided that it was time to downsize, so we started looking at smaller >> houses. Over those seventy plus years, I had accumulated an extensive >> library-more than two, perhaps more than three, thousand volumes. So as we >> looked at houses, my eye always looked for places where books could be >> shelved. But not one house we were shown had been designed to accommodate >> the shelving of books. Apparently American architects, developers, and >> builders do not consider books to be something they need to make >> accommodations for in American homes. Their houses have kitchens, >> bedrooms, >> bathrooms, dining rooms, family rooms, entertainment and game rooms, but >> no >> book rooms, making it clear that books are not an integral part of >> American >> culture. >> >> Books, however, are repositories of knowledge. People become educated >> by reading books. If homes lack books, the means to education are lacking. >> If a child finds that books are not valued in his home, why would he value >> them in school? If reading is not encouraged at home, how can teachers >> convince students of the usefulness of reading? If his family believes >> that >> what they learn from watching television is enough, why would any child >> believe differently? And the nation's dropout rate provides strong >> anecdotal >> evidence that learning is not important to many Americans. >> >> America has never been very good at educating its people. (Athletes >> receive scholarships; scholars do not.) Oh yes, America has its marvelous, >> prestigious universities, but they don't produce highly educated >> Americans. >> Most advanced degrees awarded by U.S. universities in science, technology, >> engineering and mathematics go to foreign nationals. >> >> [http://www.uschamber.com/international/agenda/immigration_policies.htm]. >> >> Our controversial reliance on H1B visas is well known. America takes >> credit for building the atomic bomb, but much of the science was developed >> in Europe and many of the scientists involved were Europeans who were >> educated there. The president, in his "Yes, we can!" oratory says "We put >> a >> man on the moon in ten years." Yes, we did, but not without help from >> German >> scientists and engineers who many believe should have been tried as war >> criminals in Nuremburg at the end of World War II. The English built the >> first modern computer (secretly) and invented radar. A German designed the >> first operational turbojet engine. American colleges and universities do >> not >> graduate enough schoolteachers, nurses, or primary care physicians (many >> of >> which we now import from that intellectual giant named India). Even our >> nation's financiers relied on a Chinese mathematician's theorem to >> evaluate >> risk. (I have never heard anyone say that we lack enough MBAs.) When the >> nation's financiers decided to use David X. Li's Gaussian copula function >> to >> access risk, they led the world down a road to perdition. Li himself said >> of >> his own model: "The most dangerous part is when people believe everything >> coming out of it." Such belief results from mathematical ignorance. >> >> Although we have educated a few very well, we have not made education >> an integral part of our society. Not only have we taken to importing the >> products we sell, we have for decades imported the brains we use. Now we >> have even been reduced to having to import our own money. We have almost >> become an entirely dependent nation. >> >> The American educational system won't be improved by producing more >> teachers, building more classrooms to reduce class size, or creating >> programs such as 'head start' and 'no child left behind'. It can only be >> improved by a fundamental change in our cultural values. >> >> Imagine what American athletics would be like if bats and balls of >> all >> types and the broadcast of athletic events were as rare in American homes >> as >> books. Americans need to recognize that no nation was ever made great by >> its >> entertainers, athletes, and shopkeepers; yet a nation of entertainers, >> athletes, and shopkeepers is what America has become. None of these is an >> intellectual pursuit. >> >> America's ruling oligarchs may believe that the public can be kept >> ignorant while they and their children can be learned, but they're wrong. >> Ignorance is pervasive; it affects the rich as well as the poor, the >> powerful and the powerless, the famous as well as the obscure. It's >> prevalent in the suites of our nation's CEOs, the Congress, the military, >> and even our universities. It defines this nation. >> >> How anyone can believe that America can continue to prosper in this >> state of ignorant dependency is a conundrum of Gordian-knot proportions. I >> believe it was Dean Baker (sorry, I lost the reference) who wrote, "We >> need >> to remember what happened to the British Empire. Having originated with >> the >> overseas colonies and trading posts established by England in the 17th >> century, by 1922, it held sway over one-quarter of the world's population >> on >> whom 'the sun never set.' Yet by 1914 it had become a 'nation of >> shopkeepers' >> which could not then nor again in 1939 defend itself against much smaller >> Continental powers." Those in power in America are ignorant of history, >> too. >> >> -0o0o0o0- >> >> John Kozy is a retired professor of philosophy and logic who blogs on >> social, political, and economic issues. After serving in the U.S. Army >> during the Korean War, he spent 20 years as a university professor and >> another 20 years working as a writer. He has published a textbook in >> formal >> logic commercially, in academic journals and a small number of commercial >> magazines, and has written a number of guest editorials for newspapers. >> His >> on-line pieces can be found on http://www.jkozy.com/ and he can be emailed >> from that site's homepage. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> Provided by Australis >> http://www.australis.com.au/ >> >