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Pam, wanted me to post her email replies here as she is not on this mailing list: ------------------------------------------------ Dear David, In one of my poems on The Argotist Online the reference to 'old europe' is an ironic reference to George W Bush's use of the term pronounced, by him, 'old yerp'. Happy to hear you say 'coffee shop' in Britain, perhaps that's its origin in the colony (that's ironic too). Regards, Pam Brown --------------------------------------------- Pam there's nothing I can see in the poem that indicates GWBush is specifically intended (Old Europe is a hackneyed usage of hoary provenance) and certainly not 'old yerp'. Formulations like 'coffee shop' are normal in English. In the sense that it's used as a demotic alternative to the frenchified 'cafe' it's probably yet another echo of the dual parentage of the language (I know the etymology of 'coffee' is Turkish-Arabic, that's another matter, he said, warily, glancing over his shoulder). Concise Oxford definition of 'cafe' = 'coffee shop'. As for colonies, I've never owned one. --------------------------------------------- Oh Well, for me 'Old Europe' has passed into the modern vernacular. Sorry that it disturbed your correct cultural reference detector. I do refute that it's an example of 'a poetics for the international bourgeoisie'. Yes,I agree, your 'impression' is absolutely 'curious' The coffee shop/cafe reference is, in fact, in opposition to what you call the 'international bourgeoisie' - the line is about liking Ken Bolton's poems NOT using the trendy international word 'cafe'. Your comments on etymology aren't relevant here. They're really plain old nit picking. Pam Brown --------------------------------------------- Dear David, That poem is included in my forthcoming collection 'Authentic Local'. (Ironic title too) I've re-read it - I'll add single quotes to 'old Europe' - that should aid my few potentially-befuddled readers. So, thanks for the comment about that. Still NOT part of whatever 'international bourgeosie poetics' is, though. Pam ---------------------------------------------