Hi Gunner and all I was interested in your: "From my perspective, the social science/design border is where it's easy to make a case for "design research" belonging with applied/professional design." Would you (or others) like to comment further on the social science - design intersection, or where design research could be located in relation to the wider social research area/agenda? I'm interested in considering what design research could be like if we moved past the artifact, i.e. if our focus was not on generating artifacts from the research, in terms of more traditional notions of designed objects... but instead develop 'design proposals' (as Cross calls design outcomes) for social research. As Jacques Giard suggests please forgive any curly words I may have unintentionally included Best Wishes from the Snowies v. -- Viveka Turnbull Hocking Tel...........02 6456 7439 Mobile.....0431 945 252 Mail.........PO Box 1066, Jindabyne NSW 2627