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No resentment on my part, Anny, nor any questioning of the value of education, of which, as you point out, I've had lots and lots. The issue is specifically about MFAs, which it's good to remember are a very recent phenomenon within an academic world that has become, since the post-WWII GI Bill, a major segment of the US economy that often behaves no differently than other oarts of the economy. Mark. At 08:48 AM 7/27/2009, you wrote: >Jon Corelis' witticism is a genre per se, you might need to know Corelis a >little more to appreciate it fully. I am surprised instead by Mark Weiss' >message, if I am right be piles up diplomas in his little drawer, at least >from his qualifications: psychologist, Editor, Author, and so forth. I agree >on education, and as you rightly say, for painters and musicians it is an >honor to show where and with whom they have studied. I think that behind a >lot of criticism against MFA's and other qualifications there is some >resentment, if not worse personal feelings. It is not my intention to >investigate them further. I simply wanted to acknowledge your response and >praise it. > >My best wishes, >Anny Ballardini > >On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Glen Roy PHILLIPS ><[log in to unmask]>wrote: > > > I do not agree with this any more than its original, 'poetry is what gets > > lost in the translation'. That poetry began to get lost with the invention > > of writing, is just as true. > > > > But really, many authors acknowledge that an admired English teacher (in > > addition to discovering literature itself) was at least highly influential > > in arousing or encouraging their commitment to becoming writers, and even > > poets. It certainly was a key factor for me at the time when I made career > > decisions. > > > > But is this really about the desire to hog the merit for one's own > > accomplishments. Plus echoes of Wordsworth's warnings about the deadly > > influence of the classroom upon 'the growing boy' and his developing > > imagination. Yes, schooling had many negative influences and there are good > > and bad schools (or schooling). Yet in all 'developed' cultures it is in > > the > > school (including seminaries I suppose) where exposure to each culture's > > poetry and literature generally occurs on a significant scale. (in Italy or > > China, awareness of the literary heritage is not a matter of cultural > > cringing.) A book not set for study in schools often will not otherwise be > > sought out or discovered by most citizens. Surely the background works of > > poetry are part of the making of the poet? So why sneer at the school for > > taking some of the responsibility for that part of the poet's preparation? > > > > Sheer genius of the individual poet is something the school can lay no > > claim > > to, but humankind has not apparently invented a more appropriate means of > > providing a supportive learning environment for large numbers of citizens > > than schools. Tribal situations with their lower numbers are another > > matter, > > as indigenous minorities can demonstrate. > > > > I have noticed a tendency for poets among all the other kinds of artists to > > take their own literacy for granted, yet it is just as much a part of > > learning about their chosen (?) art form as the basics of playing or > > composing music, studying principles of drawing and painting or the basics > > of any art form. Why should poets put themselves above their fellow artists > > as not having dirtied their hands (or fingers at least) with the mere craft > > of poetry? Painters and pianists seem happy enough about admitting to > > 'training'. > > > > I agree that schools have much to answer for in blunting genius and turning > > literature (and poetry in particular) into the equivalent of laboratory > > dead > > specimens for dissection! Yet, to dismiss any association between art and > > schooling because not all classrooms are good ones, or because so few > > teachers have an idea of what is really going on in the making (or reading) > > of poetry, is unfair at best. > > > > If you cannot read or write you eschew some pretty basic skills for being a > > poet. Yes, I have seen the bumper stickers saying 'if you can read this > > blame a primary school teacher'. I think I would have learned to read and > > write by myself but it was a lot more efficient to go to school. And so > > visual artists generally do go to art school and musicians generally do > > have > > music teachers. Surprisingly, perhaps, among performers very few poets > > think > > themselves in need of a voice coach, let alone a full performance coach. > > More's the pity I sometimes think as I sit in some suburban poetry reading, > > doing penance. > > > > Or maybe 'poetry is what gets lost in the classroom' was just a bit of > > gentle witticism? Ok, ok. > > > > > > On 27/7/09 3:46 AM, "Jon Corelis" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > Poetry is what gets lost in the classroom. > > > > > > This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must > > not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received > > it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any > > record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the > > opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no > > liability for the accuracy of the information provided. CRICOS IPC 00279B > > > > > >-- >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >star! >Friedrich Nietzsche