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Dear Amanda Far from ugly - I think it is quite charming - I too find relevance to be a major issue - being creative is a lot like having an extra thumb - most of the time it is useless - some of the time it is best thing to bring to a party. cheers keith >>> "Bill, Amanda" <[log in to unmask]> 07/24/09 1:15 PM >>> David said ....there are strongly and weakly held positions within each starting point. Charles adopts a strong position on one side and Cameron adopts a strong position on the other, with Amanda and Ken seeming to take a middle position, suggesting in part that the way through is a redefinition of the concept and potentially where we might look to find the 'real' nature of creativity, or at least a more acceptable basis for moving forwards.... As for me, I'd rather not dichotomize social constructionist and realist positions. Teaching in design, I found neither was helpful in my quest for educational relevance. Thinking about the social construction of creativity just led me to cynicism, and thinking about it as real just led to frustration. Which ideologies of creativity was I meant to be educating students in, anyway? Big C 'genius' CREATIVITY or little c 'correlates' of creativity? (for just two examples). Very little of what is taught as design addresses any of this. For teaching purposes, I find the best way to think about creativity is as a corporeal regime, performed through a particular technology of education. In my case, a creative arts education, which normalizes a type of subjectified creativity. Creativity is something 'achieved'. I know Keith will think this an ugly explanation, but I haven't had time to make it more creative..... Amanda