medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
No, you're right I think. But in hunting for the Gratian citation earlier, I lost sight of the original point I wanted to raise about ordaining knights. If I recall correctly, wouldn't a previous homicide be considered an impediment to orders that would require dispensation before ordination? Wouldn't this suggest that a knight could be ordained if a) he received dispensation for previous bloodshed, and b) he put aside (or at least promised to put aside) his knightly profession?
But clearly the prohibition could be honored in the brecch. I just remembered that Henry V issued a muster to the English clergy (or at least to the Hereford clergy, where this is from) in 1415: "On the twenty-ninth day of June [1415], the bishop [of Hereford] received a writ from the king that he should muster the clergy of the diocese, regular as well as secular, exempt and nonexempt and gather and unite them into an effective fighting force as their abilities may allow. They are to be rallied and arrayed in resistance of the wanton malice and infestation of the enemies of Holy Mother Church, the king and kingdom under forfeiture of anything they can forfeit."
This is six weeks before the battle of Agincourt. Presumably a national emergency could override the canons!
Best,
John
------------------------------------------
John Shinners
Professor of Humanistic Studies
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, Indiana 46556
Phone: 574-284-4494 or 574-284-4534
Fax: 284-4855
www.saintmarys.edu/~hust
"Learn everything. Afterwards you will see that nothing is superfluous." -- Hugh of St. Victor (d. 1141)
----- Original Message -----
From: Herwig Weigl <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:14:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [M-R] Nothing 'chivalric' about medieval priests
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
John Shinners schrieb:
> Gratian would seem to rule out knights being ordained.
he refers only to clerics who kill. But this canon does not exclude lay
persons from being ordained if they have killed before.
Best, h.w.
> In Distinctio 50, c. 5 he says:
>
> "Clericum, qui paganum occiderit, non oportet ad maiorem gradum prouehi, qui carere debet etiam acquisito, homicida enim est. Nam cum discreti sint milites seculi a militibus ecclesiae, non conuenit militem ecclesiae militare seculo, per quod ad effusionem sanguinis necesse sit peruenire."
>
> ("It is not fitting for a cleric who has killed a pagan to advance to a higher order, which he should be deprived of even if he has achieved it, since this is homicide. For since secular soldiers/knights should be distinct from the soldiers/knights of the church, it does not suit a soldier of the church to fight for the secular world, from which the spilling of blood would result of necessity.")
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