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Hi, Saad
Thank you very much for your helpful information! I will try to investigate this difference further based on your suggestions.
Longchuan


From: Saad Jbabdi <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 5:46:53 AM
Subject: Re: [FSL] threshold tracts and interpretation

Hi Longchuan,

Another question I have is about the very different waytotal numbers we observed between hemispheres and across subjects in our population. It is quite often to observe that the waytotal for the left CST, for example, is 100 times larger than that for the right CST, or subject A's waytotal is 100 times larger than that in subject B. Do you think this waytotal number actually reflects some anatomical differences in the CST? I know it should be a combined results of the qualtiy of diffusion data and anatomical differences (maybe the diffusion model I choose too), I am just wondering, based on your experiences, approximaltely how much I should beleive that these waytotal differences are actually reflecting some anatomical differences.

Hard to say, but probably a combination of factors, such as:

. differences in the ROI definitions (size, functional vs anatomical definition, etc.)
-> shouldn't be such an issue with CST...
. differences in the data discretisation (e.g. voxels along the CST may have more crossing fibres in some subjects).
-> worth looking at bedpostx results (f1,f2) along tracts and compare across subjects?
. noise and artefacts (including signal drops and geometric distortions)
-> look at the data!
. modelling errors (both for local fibre ODF and global tract model)
-> can't do much about this one... wait for better models...
. microstructural differences along the tracts
-> FA, MD, etc.?


Cheers,
Saad.




Again, thank you very much in advance for your help!

Longchuan    




From: Saad Jbabdi <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:56:19 AM
Subject: Re: [FSL] threshold tracts and interpretation

Hi Longchuan


On 14 Jul 2009, at 03:32, Long Chuan wrote:

Hi, FSL experts
I am trying to map tracts of the corticospinal tract (CST) from multiple subjects to a common space. By reading the previous threads about this topic, I did the following: I first transformed the CST traced from each subject to a template and then normalized the CST tracts using waytotal. Then, the CSTs across subjects were added together, and lastly, they were averaged to form a CST map from the population. My questions are as follows:
1) What is the best way to interpret this map? From the previous mails, after the normalization by waytoal, it seems that the tracts can be interpreted as the tract probabilities given the prior knowlege that the tract is there. Can I interpret the map from multiple subjects as the CST tract probability at a population level?

Yes I think that's right. 
You can convince yourself that it is true by writing:

p(A->B) = p(A->B |  Y1)p(Y1) + p(A->B |  Y2)p(Y2) + p(A->B |  Y3)p(Y3) + ...

Where Y1, Y2, ... are data from different subjects, which are equally probable a priori: p(Y1)=p(Y2)=...


2) One of my interests is to look at if the CST in the two hemispheres have same 'tractibility'. After running tractography on each individual, I did find that it seems left CST is more tractable than the right in my population, which usually has larger waytotal than that on the right side. But if I normalize the two CST using waytotal (left waytotal is larger than right waytotal), this asymmetry will be gone in the pouplation CST map. So, my questions are i) if this asymmetry in 'tractibility' in the two hemipsheres noticed in the FSL tractography worth reporting; ii) if it does and it will not show in the map obtained using above-mentioned method, what is the best way to characterize this difference? Using 2 sample-ttest on the waytotal or some other methods?

When you say that you have observed asymmetries in the CST, do you mean in terms of the spatial extent of the tracts? Or do you mean in terms of the voxel-wise probability values along the tract? 
I there is no difference in the tract extent, then normalising by waytotal should keep an asymmetry in the pdf, whereas when there is a difference in the spatial extent, the asymmetry after normalising will be lower.

The easiest asymmetry to report is probably an asymmetry in the spatial extent of a tract that is defined using waypoint masks that are equivalent between hemispheres. 
Whether it is interesting or not I guess depends on what it means. It surely opens up other questions, such as:

- is the asymmetry specific to the part of the CST that you have dissected? [presumably the hand M1?]
- is it a mere asymmetry in the shape, or are there micro-structural asymmetries as well (FA,MD,etc..)?
- does it have functional/behavioural consequences/correlates?
- more precisely: does the degree of asymmetry, as measured using this method, predict the asymmetry in the subject's motor functions?
- etc. I am sure there are plenty of interesting (?) questions here...


Cheers,
Saad.



Sorry for some mnay dumb questions, and I would appreciate your help :)

Longchuan  



--
Saad Jbabdi
University of Oxford, FMRIB Centre

JR Hospital, Headington, OX3 9DU, UK
+44 (0) 1865 222523  (fax 717)











--
Saad Jbabdi
University of Oxford, FMRIB Centre

JR Hospital, Headington, OX3 9DU, UK
+44 (0) 1865 222523  (fax 717)