Hello Tim
Do you mean a different relationship between language and experience? Is it anything to do with 'in the beginning was the word'?
Would you expand the change to include poetic form, and a shift towards free verse and/or modernist experimentation?
Fishing here.
Ian
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:09:20 +0100
> From:
[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: spiritual materialism
> To:
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> An interesting post Jim. What an immense subject though.
> I've been on this planet for quite a while now and I still don't know
> what people really mean by 'spiritual'. I tend to think of it as being
> deep feeling but that never seems to be enough for the religious -
> they always want to attach such 'deep feeling' to an outside agent.
> What I do know though is the affect that such a thing as 'spiritual
> belief' has on our use of language in poetry, or, to put it the right
> way round historically, the affect on our poetry of losing spiritual
> belief. I think there is, in most cases where the writer is
> consciously theist or atheist, a noticeable difference in their
> relationship to language. I would hazard the notion that that
> difference first became manifest in Baudelaire.
>
> Tim A.
>
> On 5 Jul 2009, at 20:40, Jim Andrews wrote:
>
> > it is commonly observed that a great deal of contemporary art/
> > writing involves a double sense of 'the material'. the term is
> > understood to refer not only to the subject matter (the 'standard'
> > understanding in writing) but also the matter of the media in the
> > piece, the material embodiment of the piece. it's also commonly
> > observed that the latter awareness of and approach to composition
> > not solely by ideation, meditation on the subject matter, but also
> > through operation on the material embodiment, has come to be much
> > more widely understood as a part of reading than it was a generation
> > ago. when we encounter work that does not follow the grammars and
> > approaches traditionally associated with work, we inquire into the
> > methods of composition, the approach to materiality, and look for
> > relations between those methods and approaches and the subject
> > matter, or look for the subject matter in the light of those things.
> > and so read differently, thereby. and in this way, we now read some
> > literary work in ways that are closer to how we approach a great
> > deal of visual art.
> >
> > but what i want to get at is something that isn't so commonly
> > observed, at the moment, but may be in the next generation. and
> > that's the relation of awareness of the materiality of writing/art
> > to our ideas of who and what we are. that's erm awkwardly stated.
> > what i'm trying to get at is this. the whole emphasis on materiality
> > is involved in a larger movement to explore how things like
> > ideation, imagination, the spiritual, beauty, truth, goodness,
> > justice--all our ideals and things normally associated with the
> > immaterial--operate in the material world.
> >
> > in this sense, we might say that the whole contemporary awareness of
> > materiality in art is part of a larger ah spiritual materialism. i
> > googled that term, after it occurred to me, and i assure you i'm
> > using it in a different sense than chögyam trungpa, who uses it "to
> > describe mistakes spiritual seekers commit which turn the pursuit of
> > spiritualism into an ego building and confusion creating
> > endeavor" (wikipedia). instead, i'm refering to a relatively common
> > sort of philosophy in which the material substrate of ideation and
> > even the spiritual is affirmed and its relations with even the
> > flightiest of fancies are explored. not to denigrate or dismiss
> > things like spirituality but to explore how they operate materially.
> >
> > perhaps more evidently, now, this is also related to philosophies of
> > mind in which the materiality of thought itself is affirmed--as a
> > chemical and informational process, however emergent--and the brain
> > and the mind that emerge from its processes are conceived as fully
> > embodied in the material. so that the idea of being able to create
> > thinking machines (however unlike us) becomes a real possibility.
> > and we are conceptualized as nature's (near?) ultimate machines. and
> > machines are conceptualized not as the simple things we once thought
> > they must be but as often very complex biological creatures that,
> > nonetheless, are embodied in the material world and are, therefore,
> > subject to the constraints and possibilities of machines in the
> > material world.
> >
> > to wrap it up, we now see the relation between contemporary artistic
> > emphasis on the materiality of writing/art and the larger moment of
> > 'spiritual materialism'.
> >
> > ja
> >
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