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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Peter, i am (for the second time) at quite a loss to see what part of this one by you is contributing original material to the discussion. is it: They were distinct: some mired abbots were not in charge of exempt houses, and some heads of exempt houses were not mitred. They are both cases of evolving custom which elude later canonists' attempts to impose theoretical tidiness on them. ???? perhaps you could do a bit of editing of previous messages before adding your own (good, i i'm sure) thoughts? best, c ------ Original Message ------ Received: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:57:52 AM EDT From: Peter McDonald <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [M-R] mitred abbots > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > Rosemary Hayes-Milligan and Andrew Milligan wrote: > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > No I think Paul's answer shows conclusively that they were not. I was > > merely showing my awfully Anglo-centric view and also exhibiting the > > dangers of dashing off an incomplete answer when a query tickles > > something lurking at the back of the mind. Though it may have been > > peculiarly English that mitred abbots sat with the Lords in parliament? > > > > Rosemary > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jon Cannon <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > *To:* [log in to unmask] > > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:02 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [M-R] mitred abbots > > > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and > > culture > > ...So were the mitred abbots a specifically English breed? I'd > > always imagined this was some special status that only a pope > > could confer, and that it was equally possible anywhere in western > > Christendom. > > > > Interesting... > > > > Jon > > > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:57:28 +0100 > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > > Subject: Re: [M-R] les habits pontificaux > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion > > and culture > > > > > > Thank you Peter for elucidating that for me. > > > > > > I think Paul Chandler's point says more comprehensively than I > > could what is > > > probably the answer to the original query. > > > > > > Rosemary > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Peter McDonald" <[log in to unmask]> > > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:27 PM > > > Subject: Re: [M-R] les habits pontificaux > > > > > > > > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion > > and culture > > > > > > Rosemary Hayes-Milligan and Andrew Milligan wrote: > > > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion > > and culture > > > > > > > > Or was it the same as being a 'mitred abbot' in England, which > > made the > > > > abbot the equivalent of a bishop among the lords spiritual? I > > cannot now > > > > remember whether the English mitred abbots were necessarily > > the same > > > > (there was certainly some overlap) as those who had papal > > exemptions from > > > > episcopal jurisdiction. > > > > > > > > Rosemary Hayes > > > > > > They were distinct: some mired abbots were not in charge of exempt > > > houses, and some heads of exempt houses were not mitred. They > > are both > > > cases of evolving custom which elude later canonists' attempts > > to impose > > > theoretical tidiness on them. > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > > > to: [log in to unmask] > > > To send a message to the list, address it to: > > > [log in to unmask] > > > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion > > > to: [log in to unmask] > > > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, > > write to: > > > [log in to unmask] > > > For further information, visit our web site: > > > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > View your Twitter and Flickr updates from one place - Learn more! > > <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/137984870/direct/01/> > > ********************************************************************** > > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR > > NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, > > address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, > > send the message: leave medieval-religion to: > > [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact > > the list's owners, write to: > > [log in to unmask] For further information, > > visit our web site: > > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > > > > ********************************************************************** > > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > > to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it > > to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the > > message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order > > to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > > [log in to unmask] For further information, > > visit our web site: > > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > There is a monograph on the subject of mitred abbots, P. Hofmeister, > /Mitra und Stab der wirklichen Prälaten ohne bischöflichen Charakter/ > (Stuttgart, 1928), which covers the subject comprehensively from a > Europe-wide perspective. I consulted it years ago but am now 12000 miles > from the nearest copy and regret that I can't expand on its argument! > > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] > To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion > to: [log in to unmask] > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] > For further information, visit our web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html