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What, exactly, is an "inner world?" The cultures I know of are Polynesian. C --- On Wed, 10/6/09, Greta Sykes <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: Greta Sykes <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs To: [log in to unmask] Date: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 2:37 PM Yes, very interesting – where are they? How come an artist paints in a style that we all recognise for his or her style, if they are not a person and don’t perceive their own inner needs? One can take social construction perhaps too far, as we do exist as individuals, unique ones at that, in term of our blood, genes, fingerprints and unique set of emotions and thoughts. These we can at leisure observe from the inside – and from the outside via other peoples’ social constructions of us - as Helen said; we are each necessarily the best observer of our inner world, or observers, if you have multiple personalities, Greta From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of tim anstiss Sent: 10 June 2009 10:16 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs that sounds interesting - which cultures are these? Tim --- On Wed, 10/6/09, CRAIG NEWNES <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: CRAIG NEWNES <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs To: [log in to unmask] Date: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 10:12 AM You have to believe in the concept of "persons" to write this. All over the world people do indeed believe they change by the minute - in some cultures "responsibility" for the self is unknown because "selves" change daily - hence you can't be held responsible for something done yesterday - and "achievement" is unheard of Craig --- On Wed, 10/6/09, COMBES Helen A <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: COMBES Helen A <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs To: [log in to unmask] Date: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 10:00 AM Dear Philosophical of Birmingham You raise some interesting points. I think that we are the best observers of our inner world and in that sense we are the most objective viewers of our experience. Through language we can have some shared understanding and of course language is an extremely useful tool but it is always limited. Your post script about true selves as the subjective is also interesting. Do we become another person when we change our minds, when we move, change/lose our jobs/parents. I doubt it?! Helen From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Harris Carl (R3) BCH Sent: 08 June 2009 16:51 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs Dear all Helen’s revival of this dialogue coincides with a brief discussion of social constructionism today in my place of work. Does a subjective experience imply the existence of an individual “subject” that is separate from that which is being experienced? If our experiences are all socially constructed then this separation is problematic, as we cannot separate ourselves from the social processes through which we encounter ourselves and the world. In a sense, therefore, all of our experiences are non-subjective, as they are constructed through our collective languaging, thinking and practice, although “we” (as individual organisms) seem to be aware of something going on (and are, therefore, having an experience). Is that what you were saying, Helen, when you referred to the notion of “what one observes in the here and now without language (if that is ever possible)”? So, although in “our society” we are construed as individuals who have subjective experiences, this is itself a social construction. What would a critical realist response to this be? Would it be to say that all social practices perform a social function and that, while they are all ultimately based on one set of indefensible assumptions or another, it is their effects in the “real world” that matter. We can observe and experience their effects for ourselves (referring, if we like, to our “subjective experiences”) and can perceive their effects on those around us. We can see who wins and who loses through the “winning out” of one version of reality or another. This takes me back to the question that David Fryer suggests we ask, “In whose interest is it that this should be believed?” Cheers Philosophical of Birmingham PS I wonder also whether the term subjective in the context of taking anti-psychotic drugs refers to the notion of a “true self”. Whether that is the self that is “sane”, “experiencing psychosis”, or “taking anti-psychotic drugs” is beyond me. From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of COMBES Helen A Sent: 08 June 2009 11:19 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs Maybe what one observes in the here and now without language (if that is ever possible)! Helen From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Suzanne Elliott Sent: 20 May 2009 15:11 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs Hi craig Hmmm… serious and interesting question. I need to be more cautious about what I reproduce with the copy-and-paste function!! I wonder whether it was a way of presenting people’s experiences that suited ACTA PSYCHIATRICA SCANDINAVICA who published the article. A bit like the BPS calling this months ‘beyond cbt’ theme in the Psychologist mag an ‘opinion special’. suzanne From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CRAIG NEWNES Sent: 20 May 2009 14:53 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs Suzanne, Serious question: What is a non-subjective experience? Craig --- On Wed, 20/5/09, Suzanne Elliott <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: Suzanne Elliott <[log in to unmask]> Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs To: [log in to unmask] Date: Wednesday, 20 May, 2009, 9:01 AM Hi everyone Someone sent me a link to this paper (below), I haven’t looked at the full article yet, but it looks interesting… Suzanne Below is a summary of the findings of an interesting study looking at the personal experience of taking antipsychotic medication. The full paper can be reached at www.mentalhealth.freeuk.com/acta.pdf The subjective experience of taking antipsychotic medication: a content analysis of Internet data Significant outcomes • Sedation, impaired cognition and emotional flattening and indifference were most frequently associated with all the drugs examined. Few respondents mentioned pleasant effects such as calmness or relaxation. • Although, the main subjective effects were shared by the different antipsychotics, they were associated with a different profile of physical effects. • Some respondents described a beneficial impact of the main subjective mental effects of the antipsychotic drugs on their psychiatric symptoms. Limitations • The generalisability of data from Internet users is uncertain, and a bias towards negative comments may exist. However, the demographic and clinical profile of respondents resembles that of recipients of out-patient prescriptions of antipsychotics. • Little information on dose or concurrent medications was available. • We could not assess the prevalence ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK . 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