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Hiya Alison, It is interesting to put lyric poetry and art photography together since they are both given outside status and for diametrically opposed opinions. Not what I think but rather an already established a-priori which is again opinion, whereby lyric poetry is too elitist and photography too popular. I have read academic claims, citing Deleuze, that photography is purely optical as opposed to the haptic which is oil on canvas easel painting, according to this claim which again repeats the too often made opinion that painting is the privileged term in deciding what fits into the category of art and what is thereby excluded. Aside from the obvious that these opinions have not read Deleuze, which one would expect given the role of citation in academic writing, lets follow this logic. If photography is only optical, then following Deleuze's complex feedback theory of sensation, photography is outside of sensation and as such outside aesthetics which then places photography outside art, or at least the theory of art such opinion may consider to be art and give art photography this outside status. If one were now to consider an advertising billboard for a MacDonalds burger and french fries which contain a photographic image and a slogan, it is known that this image works as a haptic image which when viewed from a distance creates the desire to get close to this image and which is easily satisfied by going to a MacDonald's store. Advertising images now replace art which is to say this image is art and the text slogan also comes to replace lyric poetry. The advertising concept replaces the university and knowledge education becomes a commodity to be sold and purchased according to the Ivy League model and as such universities are transformed also into postmodern supermarkets all competing in the knowledge supermarket and advertising itself is said, according to this logic, to be absolute art without relation to the postmodernist relativism which claims all art to be relative, advertising billboards being the only true art and so on and so and so.... Rather a gothic image, supermarket horror, best wishes, Chris Jones. On Sun, 2009-06-28 at 10:11 +1000, Alison Croggon wrote: > Hi Chris - great to see you back! Do you really think that > photographers really have outsider status (poets is easier to > argue...) Given that we live in a culture dominated by the visual > image, and art photography and video is so enfolded into contemporary > visual practice...xA > >