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Indeed, Martin. I find Hal consistently immature, or p'raps immaturely inconsistent; so much so that in his 'excessive youthfulness' he's on a march to roll back time, and soon promises to be swaddled if not paddled for excessive babyness. Pore young t'ing. Just an observation, not a stereotypical denigration of babies, natch; more a stereotypical denigration of Hal-type people, of course. hee hee Best, Judy 2009/4/3 Martin Walker <[log in to unmask]> > On this occasion, Halvard, I will say what I've always wanted to say, my > boy - that to me you are like a brilliant, nay preternaturally aware, young > nephew, worthy of much (if discreet and measured) praise. I hope you don't > mind the epithet "young", or find it demeaning to your advanced state of > sapience and mature responsibility to the Word in this Enlightened Circle. > Nobody here, I am certain, takes your excessive youthfulness amiss. > Your benevolent friend, > Gerontius. > _______________________________________ > But I am but a nameless sort of person > (A broken Dandy lately on my travels) > And take for rhyme, to hook my rambling verse on, > The first that Walker's Lexicon unravels > > - George Gordon, Lord Byron > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Halvard Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 2:58 AM > > Subject: Re: Blake poem > > > Nice to hear you kiddies squabbling amongst yourselves. >> >> Hal >> >> "Never underestimate the power of stupid >> people in large groups." >> --George Carlin >> >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> [log in to unmask] >> http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Martin Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> Well, I don't buy into this argument at all, Judy. "-isms" "negative >>> stereotypes" - falaffel. Making observations about behaviour or a process >>> (of aging, for instance) has nothing to do with -isms or stereotypes. I >>> do >>> not define/defile someone by making observations unless I reduce them to >>> simplified or allegorized forms of such observations. Do you think Andrew >>> was reducing himself? If I say "some young people have lousy street >>> manners >>> & hog the sidewalk" you think I don't know about all the qualifying >>> circumstances? What is this? I personally feel awful about getting older >>> because my concentration & my physical tone is going - I may not joke >>> about >>> it to help myself gain some distance through laughter because the class >>> of >>> senior citizens is thereby defamed? Goodbye Shakespeare, goodbye Sterne, >>> goodbye Da Ponte/Mozart (who made the most awfully demeaning toilet jokes >>> in >>> his letters, simply brought shame & scandal to the noble realm of musical >>> composition), goodbye Fawlty Towers, Bill Hicks, shut up Joyce...where >>> are >>> we going? >>> cheers >>> Martin >>> _______________________________________ >>> But I am but a nameless sort of person >>> (A broken Dandy lately on my travels) >>> And take for rhyme, to hook my rambling verse on, >>> The first that Walker's Lexicon unravels >>> >>> - George Gordon, Lord Byron >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Prince" < >>> [log in to unmask]> >>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 12:43 AM >>> >>> Subject: Re: Blake poem >>> >>> >>> I wasn't joking, Martin, and I knew Andrew was being humourous. Folks >>> >>>> apply >>>> PC differently and variously, but I wanted Andrew and others to consider >>>> the >>>> issue. I've certainly said ageist things about myself as do many >>>> over-50 >>>> folks I know. Usually I've made the remark automatically as a brief, >>>> self-deprecating intro. No matter what the reason and circumstances may >>>> be, >>>> though, ageist comments are negative stereotypes. I'm trying to stop >>>> 'buying into' it, which is taking some work, but I think it's worth it. >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Judy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2009/4/2 Martin Walker <[log in to unmask]> >>>> >>>> I challenge this "ageist" thing, Judy (if you're not joking) - if a >>>> >>>>> retired >>>>> person can't indulge in a little self-mockery (as I understand Andrew >>>>> to >>>>> have been doing) then PC Orwell rules OK. So 65+s "fiddle and fart" - I >>>>> know >>>>> I do. It's an observation, that's all. I've got plenty of ageist >>>>> observations about young urban folks, specially girls, who are often >>>>> incredibly rude on the street nowadays: like, nobody else exists. But >>>>> hey, >>>>> they're not all like that. >>>>> mj >>>>> _______________________________________ >>>>> But I am but a nameless sort of person >>>>> (A broken Dandy lately on my travels) >>>>> And take for rhyme, to hook my rambling verse on, >>>>> The first that Walker's Lexicon unravels >>>>> >>>>> - George Gordon, Lord Byron >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Prince" < >>>>> [log in to unmask]> >>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 4:42 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: Blake poem >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I challenge your tone [yes I know you're being humourous] about >>>>> retired >>>>> >>>>> folk, 'Droo; it's ageist and makes me [can't speak for others] feel >>>>>> negative >>>>>> about retired folk. I hope we can be positive about folks who we >>>>>> don't >>>>>> feel >>>>>> are young. Our cultures [yours and mine] have a low opinion of old >>>>>> folks. >>>>>> It's a damaging stereotype and one of the most persistent, if we buy >>>>>> into >>>>>> it or accept it. Thanks for considering the issue. >>>>>> Now to your poem. I like it much much better! It's smooth, still >>>>>> very >>>>>> visual, and now makes clearer the narrative whole [start, middle, >>>>>> finish], >>>>>> so that the 'feel' and fact of your theme and point stay sharp. >>>>>> >>>>>> Natch, tho, I always 'cut' redundancies and distracting excursions, >>>>>> so >>>>>> I've >>>>>> removed them, below. My opinion only, acourse! Figured you'd like >>>>>> that >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Judy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2009/4/2 andrew burke <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>> >>>>>> What do retired people who write poetry do but fiddle and fart around >>>>>> >>>>>> with >>>>>>> their own words. Here is the latest and perhaps last version of that >>>>>>> lumpy >>>>>>> text I threw at you earlier this week. Thanks to Judy, Patrick, Doug, >>>>>>> Frederick and anyone else who addressed the mess for me. Off list, >>>>>>> Andrew >>>>>>> Taylor also helped steer me right. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Poetical Works (title) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Forty six years on >>>>>>> and still I warm my hands >>>>>>> over it. It opens me out like >>>>>>> a choir singing rounds >>>>>>> in eighteenth century London. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I take it down from the shelf to >>>>>> >>>>>>> remember her, sophisticated lady >>>>>>> in a Sydney harbourside mansion who >>>>>>> placed Blake's poems in my hands >>>>>>> patted their flimsy skin, aged veinless patina. >>>>>>> 'We know you'll enjoy this, boy.' >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I went down my own back roads >>>>>>> through cities and fields, >>>>>>> an awkward pelican landing >>>>>>> on this seat this morning >>>>>>> remembering my bottle-scarred muse alive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> with Blake's pulse in the skein of days. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------[altered by jp] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Andrew >>>>>>> http://hispirits.blogspot.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>