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A bit too cryptic for old joodles, Dave. Here's how I read it and the dilemma 'pon which you rock: You will find out in the writing. the writing is all; it lives without rules; it IS the rules; it insists, like living water, its own pathways....has no definitions....is absorbed and absorbs, teases, confounds, frightens, calms, seduces......cool hot passion embrace limitless . . . . . watch the waves and tell me how to describe them, oh if ever anyone could! Then, if you still can, worry about rules. Judy 2009/2/3 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> > Joodles > > aren't 'rules' somewhere along the line a matter of negotiation? Whom > or what with, I don't know, perhaps I Don't Know, (Twin of It) is the > Answer to My Question? > > Best > > Dave > > 2009/2/3 Judy Prince <[log in to unmask]>: > > "[W]hen is a prose not a poem" indeed! You forget, dear Dave, that YOU > make > > your own poetry rules. Blast and bugger anyone else's! > > I decided months ago that you and Yeats are Proper Mates. But your voice > > dips and intrigues even more. > > > > 'Excavation' fits well; do dig now. > > > > Best, > > > > Judy > > > > 2009/2/3 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> > > > >> Ah poetry! earlier this evening, in the light-poisoned dump of the > >> valley where I live (as opposed to the clear skies up the hill where L > >> abides) I saw, not just the Moon, in quarter, you usually get that, > >> nor too Venus, as the Evening Star, that hell of sulphuric acid that > >> still burns through, but also a feebly winking Sirius too. > >> > >> That was an event, in this particular ontological dump. I've also been > >> very mindful lately that where I live is notable for being a 2 to 3 > >> thousand year old graveyard ( a necropolis of Grannies) > >> > >> Up the hill, the night sky unveils itself all through winter. Here we > >> get coughs. > >> > >> (I've missed all the New Poetry debate because of junk mail on e-mail > >> addresses of mine) > >> > >> The 'family' poem, or prose, is definitely the direction I need to > >> excavate, the question is when is a prose not a poem? > >> > >> (I think Vallejo used a verb in Spanish that could be translated as > >> 'when I prose (make) this poem' > >> > >> Best > >> > >> Dave > >> > >> > >> 2009/2/3 Judy Prince <[log in to unmask]>: > >> > Ah, well, one must have some Tuesday laffs. And, apparently, we must > >> have > >> > beauty, namely, your "iridescent colours of pollutants on the > canal-skim > >> > surfaces", poetic; I immediately 'saw' myself staring at oil coatings > in > >> > puddles, all the child-time magic when we didnae know about > 'pollutants'. > >> > > >> > I often remember your beginning of a book [or, rather, my desire for a > >> > book-length poem] about you and your parents. My lifelong dislike of > >> > reading novels skipped a bit when friends insisted I read McCourt's > >> > _Angela's Ashes_. It came today, and I hoped that you'd gotten on > with > >> your > >> > 'family' poem. Indeed, today, then, you mentioned your parents. > >> > > >> > [Total Aside: Because of a remarkable ongoing debate about the > >> > interpretation of 'Loveliest of Trees' [AEHousman] on New Poetry, a > >> rodent > >> > came across the fact of his B'Ham upbringing. I kept figuring that a > >> clue > >> > to his background might settle our interp debate.] > >> > > >> > Just a few lines more, dear Dave, on the 'family' poem, eh? > >> > > >> > BTW, maybe we ontologically dump on God bcuz the name itself is a > tough > >> > unmeaning lump. "Good", at least, would soften and morph it up a bit. > >> Is > >> > this where Anglo-Saxon fails us? I'd hope not. > >> > > >> > Judy > >> > > >> > 2009/2/3 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> > >> > > >> >> Joodles > >> >> > >> >> I have also been reminded recently of the notion of 'It' being the > >> >> target of 'ontological dumping' in that we turn 'It' into Something > >> >> Other Than It, God is a Good Example of That. > >> >> > >> >> Best > >> >> > >> >> (Smiles, glad I give you a laff. I've discovered that many people > have > >> >> been brought up in Birmingham, the poor sods, I must admit though > that > >> >> the iridescent colours of pollutants on the canal-skim surfaces did > >> >> represent a kind of optical gorgeousness to me as a kid) > >> >> > >> >> Best > >> >> > >> >> Dave > >> >> > >> >> 2009/2/3 Judy Prince <[log in to unmask]>: > >> >> > There must be a message in this, Dave. What does 'It' represent: > >> >> watching > >> >> > the film, being with your first prolonged love, or HOLDING HANDS? > Are > >> >> you > >> >> > sure that you didnae climb into your bed at age 3 as a > self-initiating > >> >> > Contraceptive Device, you precocious divvil. > >> >> > BTW, we have discovered that AE Housman was brought up in > Birmingham. > >> >> !!!!! > >> >> > > >> >> > Best, and thanks for the laffs, > >> >> > > >> >> > Judy > >> >> > > >> >> > 2009/2/3 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> > >> >> > > >> >> >> I remember one evening when I was eighteen, several centuries ago, > >> >> >> sitting with my first +serious+ girlfriend and my then i.e. > deceased > >> >> >> mom and dad on the same settee watching that film and said distant > >> >> >> parents, who barely spoke, and hadn't slept in the same bed alone > >> >> >> together since before my conscious memories (I do recall them > being > >> in > >> >> >> the same bed when I was about three but they put me in the middle > as > >> a > >> >> >> contraceptive device) watching that film, with me and my first > >> >> >> prolonged love, and HOLDING HANDS. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> It was a shock to me, and probably to my dad, as he dropped dead a > >> few > >> >> >> weeks after. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Best > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Dave > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> 2009/2/3 Jeffrey Side <[log in to unmask]>: > >> >> >> > New blog post: > >> >> >> > "Looking at the barrage of overrated and over-produced > contemporary > >> >> films > >> >> >> it is easy to forget that film once aspired to be an art form. One > >> such > >> >> film > >> >> >> is William Wyler's 1939 underrated version of Emily Bronte's novel > >> >> Wuthering > >> >> >> Heights which ..." > >> >> >> > http://jeffreyside.tripod.com/ > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> David Bircumshaw > >> >> >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet > >> >> >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > >> >> >> The Animal Subsides > >> http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > >> >> >> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> David Bircumshaw > >> >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet > >> >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > >> >> The Animal Subsides > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > >> >> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> David Bircumshaw > >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet > >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > >> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > >> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > >> > > > > > > -- > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk >