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I think Ali Jan makes an important philosophical point here. For people who are interested in these issues, can I recommend the following text: Gunaratnam, Y. (2003) Researching Race and Ethnicity: Methods, Knowledge and Power, Sage. I can't do the arguments justice in a brief e-mail. However, in this text Yasmin talks about our reliance on and use of racial and ethnic categories in research, which can reproduce common conceptions of 'race' and ethnicity. That is, particular political formations of social meaning (discourses) that produce 'race' and ethnicity as discreet, homogenous, fixed categories of difference. However, the text also draws on the work of Stuart Hall, discussing the idea of concepts operating 'under erasure'. This emphasises that these concepts (or labels) cannot be thought of in the old ways as representing essential, discreet differences between groups, but that we still need them in order to dismantle racism. This speaks to the 'treacherous bind' of research on 'race' and ethnicity which Radhadkrishnan (1996) writes about. What this all means for me is that we should be concerned about labels, and, in my reading at least, Ali Jan's point that difference is inseparable from issues of power (hence concern with who does the labelling). We should also be careful not to essentialise issues or 'race' or ethnicity in our own research practice or to treat these categories as separate from other forms of difference with which they interact. Ali Roy Senior Lecturer International School for Communities, Rights and Inclusion UCLan 01772 895127 [log in to unmask] >>> Haider Ali Jan <[log in to unmask]> 28 January 2009 09:03 >>> Hi Suman Can you elaborate on your point "The fact (?) that too often BME people tend to see refugees as ‘other’ is a problem (of ‘racism?) among BME people." I was unaware that "BME people" created the labels, classifications or monitoring mechanisms that frequently categorise them and "others", and certainly I cannot recall any studies that may conclude the assertion that you make. Ali Jan -----Original Message----- From: Health of minority ethnic communities in the UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jane Fountain Sent: 28 January 2009 08:40 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: probably us.......RE: A Friday afternoon question! on BME definition totally agree! Jane Fountain Professor of Substance Use Research InternationalSchoolfor Communities, Rights and Inclusion (ISCRI) Universityof Central Lancashire PrestonPR1 2HE UK tel: +44 (0)1772 892 780 From:Health of minority ethnic communities in the UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Suman Fernando Sent: 23 January 2009 17:39 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: probably us.......RE: A Friday afternoon question! on BME definition Surely refugees and asylum seekers are included within BME categories? The fact (?) that too often BME people tend to see refugees as ‘other’ is a problem (of ‘racism?) among BME people. Suman Suman Fernando <http://www.sumanfernando.com ( http://www.sumanfernando.com/ )> Hon. Senior Lecturer in Mental Health European Centre for Migration & Social Care (MASC) University of Kent at Canterbury, Kent CT2 7LZ Visiting Professor in the Department of Applied Social Sciences London Metropolitan University From:Health of minority ethnic communities in the UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sarah Toule Sent: 23 January 2009 16:53 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: probably us.......RE: A Friday afternoon question! on BME definition This is interesting. Many organisations involved with BME (or BAME!) groups also work with Refugee and Asylum groups, so I’m wondering where the R comes in? i.e. BMER. Sarah Toule Cancer Equality & The Prostate Cancer Charity From:Health of minority ethnic communities in the UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jane Fountain Sent: 23 January 2009 16:06 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: probably us.......RE: A Friday afternoon question! on BME definition Probably from us - the Centre for Ethnicity and Health (now part of the International School for Communities, Rights and Inclusion) , University of Central Lancashire - and you remembered it very well! I HATE the abbreviation! Our intros to reports etc always had the following: The authors are very conscious that various terms are used to refer to the many diverse communities in the UK. We prefer ‘Black and minority ethnic groups / communities.’ This reflects that our concern is not only with those for whom 'Black' is a political term, denoting those who identify around a basis of skin colour distinction or who may face discrimination because of this or their culture: 'Black and minority ethnic' also acknowledges the diversity that exists within these communities, and includes a wider range of those who may not consider their identity to be ‘Black,’ but who nevertheless constitute a distinct ethnic group. Jane Fountain Professor of Substance Use Research InternationalSchoolfor Communities, Rights and Inclusion (ISCRI) Universityof Central Lancashire PrestonPR1 2HE UK tel: +44 (0)1772 892 780 From:Health of minority ethnic communities in the UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Claire Randolph Sent: 23 January 2009 15:46 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: A Friday afternoon question! on BME definition Hello Can anyone help please I asked recently whether we should use BME or BAME and the consensus was BME. I now have a further request. I remember reading ages ago that when writing BME in full I should write it as Black and minority ethnic communities, with the Black having a capital B to represent all the various communities who identify as being Black. I now can’t find where I got that from. Does anyone have a written/published definition written anywhere so I can share it with my communications team. 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