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I think that ethnic categories are context specific and grow up in a particular social and political setting. So UK is different in mainland Europe too. Suman Suman Fernando <http://www.sumanfernando.com> Hon. Senior Lecturer in Mental Health European Centre for Migration & Social Care (MASC) University of Kent at Canterbury, Kent CT2 7LZ Visiting Professor in the Department of Applied Social Sciences London Metropolitan University -----Original Message----- From: Health of minority ethnic communities in the UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lisa Fontes Sent: 28 January 2009 11:36 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: ethnic labels in the U.S. Hi All! I realize most others on this list are from the U.K. I have been following this discussion on ethnic labels and it's just fascinating. A name like BME would NEVER be accepted in the U.S. I guess it has to do with 1) the meaning of the word "Black" in the U.S. is quite specific to people of African ancestry; 2) the general rejection of the word "minority" for people who feel they are in the majority worldwide (as non-whites) and finally 3) the requirement by people of Native American, Asian, and Latino ancestry that they be recognized on the same level as people of African origin. Of course no perfect term exists, but People of Color or ALANA (Asian, Latino, African and Native American) are the terms most often used by people in the know. These terms include some immigrants but clearly do not include other immigrants, such as immigrants from Eastern Europe, so the term "immigrant" may be added. Lisa Fontes, Ph.D. author: Interviewing Clients Across Cultures: A Practitioner's Guide (2008, Guilford Press) Massachusetts, US ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:32:44 +0000 >From: Alastair Neil Roy <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: probably us.......RE: A Friday afternoon question! on BME definition >To: [log in to unmask] > > I think Ali Jan makes an important philosophical > point here. For people who are interested in these > issues, can I recommend the following text: > > Gunaratnam, Y. (2003) Researching Race and > Ethnicity: Methods, Knowledge and Power, Sage. > > I can't do the arguments justice in a brief e-mail. > However, in this text Yasmin talks about our > reliance on and use of racial and ethnic categories > in research, which can reproduce common conceptions > of 'race' and ethnicity. That is, particular > political formations of social meaning (discourses) > that produce 'race' and ethnicity as discreet, > homogenous, fixed categories of difference. > > However, the text also draws on the work of > Stuart Hall, discussing the idea of concepts > operating 'under erasure'. This emphasises that > these concepts (or labels) cannot be thought of in > the old ways as representing essential, discreet > differences between groups, but that we still need > them in order to dismantle racism. This speaks to > the 'treacherous bind' of research on 'race' and > ethnicity which Radhadkrishnan (1996) writes about. > > What this all means for me is that we should be > concerned about labels, and, in my reading at least, > Ali Jan's point that difference is inseparable from > issues of power (hence concern with who does the > labelling). We should also be careful not to > essentialise issues or 'race' or ethnicity in our > own research practice or to treat these categories > as separate from other forms of difference with > which they interact. > > Ali Roy > > Senior Lecturer > International School for Communities, Rights and > Inclusion > UCLan > 01772 895127 > [log in to unmask] > > >>> Haider Ali Jan <[log in to unmask]> > 28 January 2009 09:03 >>> > Hi Suman > > Can you elaborate on your point "The fact (?) that > too often BME people tend to see refugees as > 'other' is a problem (of 'racism?) among BME > people." I was unaware that "BME people" created the > labels, classifications or monitoring > mechanisms that frequently categorise them and > "others", and certainly I cannot recall any studies > that may conclude the assertion that you make. > > Ali Jan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Health of minority ethnic communities in the > UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Jane Fountain > Sent: 28 January 2009 08:40 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: probably us.......RE: A Friday > afternoon question! on BME definition > > totally agree! > > > > Jane Fountain > > Professor of Substance Use Research > > International School for Communities, Rights and > Inclusion (ISCRI) > > University of Central Lancashire > > Preston PR1 2HE > > UK > > > > tel: +44 (0)1772 892 780 > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > From: Health of minority ethnic communities in the > UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Suman Fernando > Sent: 23 January 2009 17:39 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: probably us.......RE: A Friday > afternoon question! on BME definition > > > > Surely refugees and asylum seekers are included > within BME categories? The fact (?) that too often > BME people tend to see refugees as 'other' is > a problem (of 'racism?) among BME people. > > > > Suman > > > > Suman Fernando > <http://www.sumanfernando.com> > > Hon. Senior Lecturer in Mental Health > European Centre for Migration & Social Care (MASC) > University of Kent at Canterbury, Kent CT2 7LZ > Visiting Professor in the Department of Applied > Social Sciences > London Metropolitan University > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > From: Health of minority ethnic communities in the > UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Sarah Toule > Sent: 23 January 2009 16:53 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: probably us.......RE: A Friday > afternoon question! on BME definition > > > > This is interesting. Many organisations involved > with BME (or BAME!) groups also work with Refugee > and Asylum groups, so I'm wondering where the R > comes in? i.e. BMER. > > > > Sarah Toule > > Cancer Equality & The Prostate Cancer Charity > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > From: Health of minority ethnic communities in the > UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Jane Fountain > Sent: 23 January 2009 16:06 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: probably us.......RE: A Friday afternoon > question! on BME definition > > > > Probably from us - the Centre for Ethnicity and > Health (now part of the International School for > Communities, Rights and Inclusion) , University of > Central Lancashire - and you remembered it very > well! I HATE the abbreviation! > > > > Our intros to reports etc always had the > following: > > > > The authors are very conscious that various terms > are used to refer to the many diverse communities > in the UK. We prefer 'Black and minority ethnic > groups / communities.' This reflects that our > concern is not only with those for whom 'Black' is > a political term, denoting those who identify > around a basis of skin colour distinction or who > may face discrimination because of this or their > culture: 'Black and minority ethnic' also > acknowledges the diversity that exists within > these communities, and includes a wider range of > those who may not consider their identity to be > 'Black,' but who nevertheless constitute a > distinct ethnic group. > > > > > > > > Jane Fountain > > Professor of Substance Use Research > > International School for Communities, Rights and > Inclusion (ISCRI) > > University of Central Lancashire > > Preston PR1 2HE > > UK > > > > tel: +44 (0)1772 892 780 > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > From: Health of minority ethnic communities in the > UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Claire Randolph > Sent: 23 January 2009 15:46 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: A Friday afternoon question! on BME > definition > > > > Hello > > > > Can anyone help please I asked recently whether we > should use BME or BAME and the consensus was BME. > > > > I now have a further request. I remember reading > ages ago that when writing BME in full I should > write it as Black and minority ethnic communities, > with the Black having a capital B to represent all > the various communities who identify as being > Black. I now can't find where I got that from. > Does anyone have a written/published definition > written anywhere so I can share it with my > communications team. > > > > Thanks > > > > Claire > > > > Claire Randolph, Community Development and > Volunteering Manager > Asthma UK, Summit House, 70 Wilson Street, London > EC2A 2DB > T 020 7786 4922 F 020 7256 6075 > [log in to unmask] > > Visit our website at http://www.asthma.org.uk > Ask an asthma nurse specialist at > http://www.asthma.org.uk/adviceline > > > > A MATTER OF LIFE AND BREATH - Asthma UK has a new > online video campaign to raise awareness of the > seriousness of asthma - to view please visit > www.asthma.org.uk/lifeandbreath We really want > this campaign to be a success in getting the > message out that asthma is serious, and for many > people it is a real threat to their life. If you > can please forward this link to as many people as > possible that would be great. All donations will > make a real difference to the lives of people with > asthma. If you can support, please do. Thank you. > Please consider your environmental responsibility > before printing this email. This email is > confidential and intended solely for the addressee > and others authorised to receive it. If you are > not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > copying, distribution or action taken in reliance > on the contents of this email is prohibited. > Asthma UK/Asthma Enterprises Ltd cannot accept > liability for statements made which are clearly > the sender's own and not made on behalf of Asthma > UK/Asthma Enterprises Ltd. Asthma UK is a company > limited by guarantee. Registered in England number > 2422401. Asthma UK is a registered charity, number > 802364 (England), number SCO39322 (Scotland). > Asthma Enterprises Ltd is the trading subsidiary > of Asthma UK. 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