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This is fascinating – I had previously heard of a similar “problem” in German Rakesh’s answer partly anticipates a question I was going to ask – perhaps naively after all the previous erudite epistemological discussions (I think I’m more a critical realist than a positivist, myself, BTW :-)) What word is used in legal circles in countries whose languages don’t have the word “evidence” as we mean it in English? I suppose at a trial witnesses might give their “testimony” or similar – which might not suit our purposes, as it could imply anecdote-based or eminence-based medicine, based on one person’s experience. But on what do judges/juries/etc say they make their decision if they can’t say (ie use the word) it’s on the “evidence” before them - not just witness testimony (“I saw John hit Fred”) but eg laboratory evidence or photographic evidence (NB, I’m of course talking about the language used here, I don’t mean to imply anything about judicial processes) Best wishes Andy Andy Hutchinson email: [log in to unmask] tel: 07824 604962 web: www.npc.co.uk or www.npci.org.uk _____ From: Evidence based health (EBH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rakesh Biswas Sent: 08 January 2009 15:37 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: another epistemological question.. In hindi it would translate to साक्ष्य आधारित चिकित्सा which could also mean "witness based medicine". rakesh Rakesh Biswas MD Professor, Department of Medicine, People's college of medical sciences, Bhanpur, Bypass road, Bhopal-462010 (M.P.) India Office Tel: +91 - 755 - 4005210 Office Fax: 91 - 755 - 4005112 Residence:+91-755-2682502 Mob:9755619861 email:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> http://peoplesgroup.academia.edu/RakeshBiswas On 1/8/09, Djulbegovic, Benjamin <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Both you and Pawel in his earlier message confirmed that some (most?) other languages do not appear to have word for evidence in their dictionaries…I find this remarkable….and is certainly something that post-modernists in language departments around the world should address (instead perhaps providing a naïve views on the way how medicine is practiced as we have seen it in the recent Social Epistemologu issue)…. Thanks ben From: Tom Jefferson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:06 AM To: Djulbegovic, Benjamin Cc: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: another epistemological question.. Hi Ben and all. I live in Italy. Italian, the beautiful language of great poets, singers and composers has undergone colonisation since the end of WW2 by another beutiful language (Anglo-Saxon). To give you some examples formatting a disk is called "formattare", mouse clicking is now "cliccare" and hamburgers once known as "svizzere" are now "amburger" without an h. Now, this is nothing new nor should it necessarily be a cause for concern as neologisms have been the run of the mill here for 3000 years, usually imported by barbarians (itself a term the ancient greeks used to signify those who could not speak Doric and bleated like sheep "ba ba"). However some are distortions of the language of Dante. Determined should be "deciso" in Italian and it is now "determinato" which is the past participle of the verb decidere, to decide. Intriguing is "intrigante" which originally meant a person who meddles, and so on. Another victim is EBM or "medicina basata sulle evidenze" which should be "medicina basata sulle prove scientifiche" as "evidenze" simply did not exist in modern Italian. Some call it "medicina basata sulle prove di efficacia" which I think is highly misleading and restrictive as it implies that we only look at effectiveness, so "....prove di effetto" would be better (effects). However the concept of effects (efficacy, effectiveness, harms) here is not yet used widely. I hope this is useful, apologies for the long winded answer. Tom. 2009/1/8 Djulbegovic, Benjamin <[log in to unmask]> Dear all On several occasions I have been told by those who teach EBM in non-English speaking countries that there is no adequate translation of term "evidence-based medicine". EBM is typically translated as "fact-based medicine" or "proof-based medicine". Since this is very much international discussion group, I wonder if those colleagues who work in non-English speaking countries may comment on linguistic meaning (and translation) of EBM in their languages. This may shed some light on ongoing epistemological discussion…. ben Benjamin Djulbegovic, MD, PhD Professor of Medicine and Oncology Co-Director of Clinical Translation Science Institute Director of Center for Evidence-based Medicine and Health Outcomes Research Mailing Address: USF Health Clinical Research 12901 Bruce B. Downs Boulevard, MDC02 Tampa, FL 33612 Phone # 813-396-9178 Fax # 813-974-5411 e-mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ______________________ Campus Address: MDC02 Office Address : 13101 Bruce B. Downs Boulevard, CMS3057 Tampa, FL 33612 -- Dr Tom Jefferson Via Adige 28 00061 Anguillara Sabazia (Roma) tel 0039 3292025051 Ti sei iscritto alla newsletter di Attenti alle Bufale? No? 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