I'll ask ALA Publishing about making the ER diagram more widely available -- certainly to this group.
Cordially,
Marjorie
Marjorie E. Bloss, RDA Project Manager 2827 West Gregory Street Chicago, Illinois 60625 USA 1-773-878-4008 1-773-519-4009 (mobile) [log in to unmask]
> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:02:23 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DC-RDA] [RDA] new analysis of scenarios 7, 8, 9, 10; updates to scenarios 1-6
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Nannette Naught built an entity-relationship diagram for the online version of RDA and presented it in her powerpoint presentation for RDA at ALA last year. Attached is the slide - you will need to zoom to a larger image to be able to read it. I'm attaching all 3 she prepared for that presentation. She had given me permission to use these in discussions in Sweden in November. - Barbara
>
> Dr. Barbara B. Tillett, Ph.D.
> Chief, Policy and Standards Division
> Library of Congress
> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
> Washington, D.C. 20540-4260
> U.S.A.
>
> tel.: +1 (202) 707-4714
> fax: +1 (202) 707-6629
> email: [log in to unmask]
>
> >>> Alistair Miles <[log in to unmask]> 1/6/2009 2:57 AM >>>
> On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 10:11:49AM -0800, Karen Coyle wrote:
> > BTW, I just looked at the ERD that was created out of the RDA
> > documents (and that forms the basis of the online system) (and is
> > unfortunately not publicly available... but we hope that it someday
> > will be)... and it looks like there are many empty nodes beyond the
> > few that I listed here. So I'll look at that some more.
>
> By ERD do you mean entity-relationship diagram? If so, can you send me
> a copy? You say it was created from the RDA documents, do you know how
> that was done?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alistair
>
> >
> > Meanwhile, as you know the full draft of RDA is out, but is huge and
> > hard to read. (The ToC is 74 pages long!) For our purposes, it would
> > be good to look at the element list that I cited earlier today, and
> > one or two representative chapters. The list of documents is at
> > http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/
> >
> > Chapter 0 (http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/Phase1Chp0_10_22_08.pdf)
> > gives an overview, but I don't think it gives you a real flavor for
> > the rules.
> > Chapter 1 (http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/Phase1Chp1_10_23_08.pdf)
> > might be more useful as an illustrative chapter for bibliographic
> > description.
> >
> > The other part of RDA is "access", and the creation of access points.
> > These are primarily relevant to the FRBR Group 2 elements, and for
> > that Chapter 8 is key
> > (http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/Phase1Chp8_10_25_08.pdf)
> > as is chapter 18
> > (http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/Phase1Chp18_11_2_08.pdf).
> >
> > I'm particularly concerned about the chapters on relationships,
> > chapters 17 - 22. Chapter 17 had me gritting my teeth over its concept
> > of "identifier."
> > (http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/Phase1Chp17_11_2_08.pdf)
> >
> > I doubt if many of us will get through all of these documents, much
> > less the whole of RDA, but I recommend dipping a toe in to get a sense
> > of the rules and treatment of elements of bibliographic data.
> >
> > kc
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Mikael Nilsson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >> Karen,
> > >>
> > >> I really don't see the issue with defining classes for these object.
> > >
> > > I don't either, in the RDF sense of "class as structure." Although, as
> > > Jon points out, some of them may be syntax encoding schemes, so we
> > > need to think about it more. What I don't want is for the RDF to get
> > > in the way of presenting this to the library community, so I prefer
> > > for it to stay in the background, doing the work it needs to do
> > > without interfering with our users, who are not going to be
> > > RDF-compliant ;-).
> > >
> > > We will be pointing people to the registry to see what we have done.
> > > I'm afraid that if we start defining classes at this point we might
> > > change things to the point that it won't look like RDA to our key
> > > audience (the creators of RDA), since they don't think in those terms.
> > > This means that for we should stick with their structure and
> > > definitions (which I encourage everyone to view at
> > > http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/jsc/docs/5rda-elementanalysisrev2.pdf)
> > > (this is what you, Mikael, saw at the London meeting). Perhaps we can
> > > discuss where we see classes emerging, and do some background work to
> > > figure out how they could / if they could / facilitate the creation of
> > > application profiles based on RDA.
> > >
> > > The "empty nodes" in the RDA element analysis are the ones with
> > > 'element' and 'sub-element':
> > >
> > > production statement
> > > publication statement
> > > distribution statement
> > > manufacture statement
> > > series statement
> > > dissertation or thesis information
> > > place and date of capture
> > >
> > > These are NOT the only areas that might be relevant for an analysis of
> > > classes; these are just the ones where we have the 'empty node'
> > > problem. There are many elements that have a defined element and
> > > defined element sub-types, which we are treating as properties and
> > > sub-properties in the registry. Whether there are any classes to be
> > > defined around these is another large question. (In fact, I think that
> > > many of them are just properties and sub-properties.)
> > >
> > > In terms of classes, as you may know, we will be looking at FRBR and
> > > FRAD entities as classes. I think this works well for agents (group
> > > 2), but I'm less clear on the Group 1 entities (work, expression...
> > > etc.) because they have a lot of overlapping properties, and the group
> > > 3 entities (subjects) because group 3 becomes a kind of super-class,
> > > where every other class can be a member of that class. Not that that's
> > > a problem, we just have to figure out if it works for us to define it
> > > that way. I'd love to have a discussion of the implications of the
> > > FRBR and FRAD entities on the RDA data -- at the moment the connection
> > > is tenuous, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to firm it up.
> > >
> > > kc
> > >
> > > --
> > > -- ---
> > > Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
> > > [log in to unmask] http://www.kcoyle.net
> > > ph.: 510-540-7596 skype: kcoylenet
> > > mo.: 510-435-8234
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -- ---
> > Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
> > [log in to unmask] http://www.kcoyle.net
> > ph.: 510-540-7596 skype: kcoylenet
> > mo.: 510-435-8234
> > ------------------------------------
>
> --
> Alistair Miles
> Senior Computing Officer
> Image Bioinformatics Research Group
> Department of Zoology
> The Tinbergen Building
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