.EmailQuote { PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1pt; BORDER-LEFT: #800000 2px solid } P { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px } He likens treating someone depressed because they are unemployed to giving therapy to a woman who is beaten at home then returns each night to an unaltered situation.
"All you are doing," says Dr Fryer, "is making them think differently about being punched."
Hi David,
Thanks for your reflections, that was helpful, particular this part:
Ithink Sam in a recent post got the main point right in relation to both unemployment and domestic violence: "it is futile treating an individual for something then returning them to the same failing system that caused the damage in the first place . . . it is the root cause that requires treatment"
I did understand from the article that you were making that point. I also feel a little clearer too about why it created such a response in me. Having a long history of interest in domestic violence and experience working in the area for five years my initail gut reaction was that the flippancy of how the comparison was used somehow felt it was trivialising violence against women, or even exploiting some of the horror of this violence to advance your own point.
But lets swap things around. If I was raising awareness about violence against woman and wanted to use the delivery of CBT onto unemployed people as a comparison to helppeople think thatthrough,how would that work.
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Fryer Sent: 03 December 2008 22:26 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Community psychology / BBC news web site Hi Rebekah, Thanks for inviting some critical reflection on the BBC news web piece. I am sorrythe BBC news piece left you feeling sickened, unless by that you mean that the positioning by the establishment of one to one individualistic cognitive interventionas a policy response todeal with ongoing abuse is sickening. I willprovide amore background to the piece and then maybe you couldput your finger on why you felt sickened by part of the piece? I was contacted by email by aBBC journalist, Paula Dear, who was writing a report on unemployment, not surprising given the current socio-economic climate. I am not sure how Paulagot hold of my name but I am on the BPS list of people willing to talk to journalistsaboutunemployment and community psychology. We (list members) have produced a number ofstatements / press releases and I see responding to journalists as part of that collective effort. In talkingto Paula I drew heavily on this UK CP Network's press release of 16 Oct 2007: Changing politicians minds about changing our minds, which I have pasted in below in its entirety.I want to draw attention here to points 6 and 7. Point6 reads: "6. It is bad enough to be depressed because of difficult living circumstances or to be anxious because you are subjected to regular domestic violence, without being told your depression or anxiety are caused by your own dysfunctional cognitions. Blaming the victim like this imposes irrelevant therapeutic rituals on top of societal oppression" Point 7 reads: "7. Besides, when those treated go back into the psychologically toxic contexts that made them distressed in the first place, to which many or most will have no alternative, they are subjected to the same social causes of distress all over again." Paula spoke to me for about an hour and a half on the telephone and I then sent her three papers to read. One was areview I had publishedofevidence that unemployment is responsible for misery distress and ill health. A secondpaper was a newer piece I had written aboutinequality (research into the relationship between societal inequality and immiseration and illness /inequality within the research relationship / inequality as a consequence of research). The third was a paper in pressin ACP co-written byAdele (Laing) and myself which problematises the question "What is community psychology", makesa case forthe answerbeing critical praxis and describesAdele's facilitation of collective praxis to expose and contest disabling practices, procedures and policiesas an example of suchcriticalpraxis. I found Paula to be a very attentive,astute,respectful and efficient. As I said in my original alert message what was published was : "only a tiny fragment of what I said and it is not totally as I would have put it myself".This isthe case with the partyou highlighted andthe specific quote attributed to me is not accuratein terms of what I actuallysaid though I can see how it is related to the sort of things I would have saidin paraphrasingpoints 6 and 7 of the press release. Paula was presented with anhour an a half of me on full speed drawing amongst other things on a condensed statement produced collectively by more than 20 of us and3 long papers whichgave her a lot of material to fit into a short report.Paula was also subject to editing from 'above' looking forjournalistic impact and the material going out at all depended on what else was happening . . .the unemployment report was held over for a day as it was.On balance IthinkPaula did a good job in conveying in clear everyday language some key points about unemployment and community psychology.
Ithink Sam in a recent post got the main point right in relation to both unemployment and domestic violence: "it is futile treating an individual for something then returning them to the same failing system that caused the damage in the first place . . . it is the root cause that requires treatment" Thanks for your email Sam. It is great that you have joined the list. The archives are well worth exploring.
I hope this clarifies matters, Rebekah.If notif you are able to put your finger on what left you feeling sickened I could try to clarify further
The full press release follows
David
The UK Community Psychology Network
For immediate release 16 October 2007
Changing politicians' minds about changing our
minds?
"Cognitive Behaviour Therapy and associated approaches
are comprehensively problematic. Primary prevention is
the only way to substantially reduce socially, economically
and materially caused distress. To be effective primary
prevention must involve social rather than cognitive
change. Reducing income inequality in our society would
be one of the most effective ways to reduce psychological
distress and ill health , says the UK Community
Psychology Network.
Contact:
David Fryer01786467650 [log in to unmask]
or
Mark Rapley, 0208 223 6392 / 0208 223 4567 [log in to unmask]
Notes for Editors:
1. The government has recently announced £170m is to be made
available by 2010 to increase the availability of low intensity, high
volume, interventions, of which Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) is
currently the most favoured, to be delivered at primary care level to
adults of working age by people who have some basic training.
2. We welcome the recognition of widespread emotional distress and the
will to spend public money on it. But the scale of socially caused
distress is so vast, and growing so rapidly, that it is impossible to 'treat
it better' by training enough people to treat all those in distress one at a
time with any therapeutic technique.
3. Even if we could train enough practitioners, there is little reason to think
that the one to one talking treatments by professionals are more than
marginally effective in the hands of some practitioners for some people,
especially those in the most difficult living circumstances. This is so
even when delivery is organised through the stepped care model that
runs from use of self help guides to full therapeutic interventions.
Changing politicians' minds 2
4. Whilst community psychology research suggests that lay people are as
effective as professionals in delivering help through talking and
listening, the effectiveness of CBT and kindred interventions in any
hands is widely exaggerated and they are impossible to apply in many
situations and with many people.
5. Moreover these treatments individualise social problems, draw attention
away from the more important social economic and material causes of
distress and position individual cognitive dysfunction as both the cause
of the person's problem and the locus for intervention.
6. It is bad enough to be depressed because of difficult living
circumstances or to be anxious because you are subjected to regular
domestic violence, without being told your depression or anxiety are
caused by your own dysfunctional cognitions. Blaming the victim like
this imposes irrelevant therapeutic rituals on top of societal oppression
7. Besides, when those treated go back into the psychologically toxic
contexts that made them distressed in the first place, to which many or
most will have no alternative, they are subjected to the same social
causes of distress all over again. If those treated do not go back into
those psychological toxic contexts, there will still be an epidemic of
newly damaged people coming on stream due others being subjected
to the ignored social causes of distress.
8. Cognitive Behaviour Therapy and associated approaches are
comprehensively problematic and primary prevention is the only way to
substantially reduce socially, economically and materially caused
distress. To be effective primary prevention must involve social rather
than cognitive change. Contemporary research shows that reducing
income inequality in our society would be one of the most effective
ways to reduce psychological distress and ill health not just for the
disadvantaged but across society in general.
9. For the sake of conciseness we have not included scholarly references
to substantiate assertions made here, but further background
information can be obtained from the network via the two contact
people identified above.
10.The UK Community Psychology Network exists to promote community
psychology as one alternative to the individual focused approaches so
dominant in the psychology of the English speaking world. Its members
include clinical, educational, social, organisational psychologists, both
in the field and in research and teaching posts, as well as people
without formal psychological qualifications.
Changing politicians' minds 3
Signatories
Julie Bird
Jan Bostock
Mark Burton
Julie Chase
Deborah Chinn
Paul Cotterill
John Cromby
Dawn Darlaston-Jones
Bob Diamond
Paul Duckett
David Fryer
Michael Göpfert
Carolyn Kagan
Annie Mitchell
Paul Moloney
Moira O'Connor
Penny Priest
Mark Rapley
David Smail
Janine Soffe-Caswell
Carl Walker
on behalf of the UK Community Psychology Network
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rebekah Pratt [[log in to unmask]] Sent: 03 December 2008 11:43 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Community psychology / BBC news web site Dear David, There is something about the last part of this piece: He likens treating someone depressed because they are unemployed to giving therapy to a woman who is beaten at home then returns each night to an unaltered situation.
"All you are doing," says Dr Fryer, "is making them think differently about being punched."
There is something about this series of statements that left me feeling sickened, but I just cant quite put my finger on why at the moment.David, I would be interested in what you think of how this was presented and what you were hoping to convey by making this particular comparison?
Rebekah
Academic Excellence at the Heart of Scotland.The University of Stirling is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC 011159. ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK For any problems or queries, contact the list moderators: Rebekah Pratt ([log in to unmask]) or Grant Jeffrey ([log in to unmask])
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