It never ceases to surprise me that listservers tend to become most animated and dynamic when the content seems least deep. The result, unfortunately, is that LSs lose members, especially newbies, who seek something more - as has happened in the last few days. Not sure what this says - have been a moderator and participant on many LSs - and the experience has crossed many disciplinary boundaries. I'm thinking that many of us (definitely me) feel most comfortable when we can pipe in short, superficial, soundbites, and will, at worst, not be severely chastised for an error in content or logic. I don't have an answer for how to create environments where being wrong does not carry high risk - but I'd like to imagine that there is some way to have the same level of participation as in the 'philosophical cars' thread, but with a little more meat so newbies don't leave because they get the wrong impression. Somewhere there must be a balance between the sort of circumspection and rigor appropriate for journal submissions and random shots from the hip... any thoughts? bear