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My subject is iron and I cannot think of anything so early. However, in the 18th century, the Swedish iron industry was to a significant extent financed by advance sales of iron to Stockholm merchant houses, who in turn received advances either from Dutch banks or English importing merchants, a substantial part of the iron being effectively pre-ordered by steelmakers in the Midlands and Sheffield. Since the buyer owned the iron before it was made under Swedish law, this enabled the English steelmakers to secure the whole output of the best brands several years in advance. Something similar may have started to develop with cheap brands of Russian iron good enough to make into nails. Similarly, contracts for wood for charcoal for ironmaking might involve an advance payment to the landowner, but the ironmaster kept control, because the men paid to cut and cole the wood were paid by him. My best evidence on this is late 17th century. These transactions were expressed as contracts for sale. I think what you have found is a mechanism for the merchants to pay miners (?) in the Dales to make the lead, but in this case the miners took the money and failed to deliver the goods. You should bear in mind that Chancery bills tend to portray what were in fact comparatively innocent commercial transactions that went wrong as a conspiracy against the complainant. Only when you see the Answer is it apparent that dealings were not as evil as implied, or that the defendant had a legitimate excuse. However you are dealing with a period before the start of the Decree and Order books, and I do not think there is usually even a defence preserved from that period; I may be wrong Peter King 49, Stourbridge Road, Hagley, Stourbridge West Midlands DY9 0QS 01562-720368 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: mining-history [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Ian Spensley Sent: 17 November 2008 16:32 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: 16th century futures market I've just transcribed two chancery documents dating from 1500 to 1530 both dealing with non delivery of lead to merchants in York, both small amounts, 4 fother from Wensleydale and 3 fothers from Swaledale. I'm wondering if these are just isolated cases of pure fraud, or whether it was common practice to make advance payments. Does anyone else have evidence of payments being made in advance of the metal being delivered at such an early date? Thanks in advance Ian Spensley