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I completely agree with Marius. Our (my) constraints are not $500 in price difference, but the fact that I maintain a system for scientific computing AND an X-ray system AND I am expected to be a scientist who publishes and writes grants. Thus, our approach has been to automate and minimize my time and effort spent. We buy out-of-the-box Dell systems WITH support. This has already paid off once when (for hard to explain reasons) a motherboard went out. I diagnosed it, called India, and Dell sent someone out to replace the motherboard and with minimal effort we were back in business. Our Dell boxes came with standard NVIDIA quadro graphics cards. Hardware-wise our only real problem is the non-existance of CRTs that can do stereo and the exhorbitant prices for the flat screens. We run CentOS because (I think) RH is impossible to deal with, but I do like the stability. We have shared, network attached file storage? (which backs up automagically and is RAIDed) and we authenticate off a Windows server via LDAP, so I do not need to maintain user records, someone else already does that and all I need to do is e-mail a note that person X (or Y , gender neutral) can have access to the Linux systems and voila work is done. The system creates everything needed. It took a LOT of effort to get where we are. We thought long and hard about what exactly we needed and why. The most difficult operation is currently to get data from synchrotrons to our system. All the firewalls (existing for good reasons, of course) make it so hard these days to do anything useful in data transfer. We use Rsync and then I manually archive raw image data away. We sometimes have dreams about distributed computing (not so much for crystallography but for small angle scattering). Not enough experience to tell you how it should be done well. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mischa Machius <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 8:01 am Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Crystallographic computing platform recommendations? After having dealt, over the years, with several dozens of 'crystallographic computing platforms' and having setup and maintained quite a few myself, I would recommend to not be cheap. I would recommend to go with well supported hardware and OS. For linux, I would recommend a commercial solution, and the hardware could come from a vendor such as Dell. In our lab, we use Macs practically exclusively, except for a few legacy Linux boxes.? ? I don't think it is worth saving a few hundred dollars when you end up spending/wasting so much time down the road assembling and fixing the machine as well as trying to keep up with the latest OS patches and drivers. I'd rather spend my time doing something else than being a computer support person. I realize I am not using the latest, greatest, pimped-out number-crunching monster, but a quad-core Mac is plenty sufficient. I like the fact that a refinement takes a few minutes longer, because that gives me time to fetch a cup of coffee or chat with a colleague.? ? Just a thought.? ? Best - MM? ? ? >> Dear list,? >> I haven't seen the "crystallographic computing platform" thread come? >> up for a while, and I've got a chance to upgrade my desktop to a? >> workstation, so I thought I'd ask the CCP4BB for advice on:? >>? >> 1. Mac vs. Linux (which flavor?) vs. Windows? >> 2. Graphics cards? >> 3. Displays? >> 4. Processors - multiple processors, multiple cores? Speed?? >>? >> About half of what I do involves ~1.0 A X-ray structures - data? >> processing, rebuilding in Coot, refinement, and so forth - so my? >> current desktop (Optiplex GX745, Radeon X1300) machine drags on? >> graphics sometimes. I don't seem to need stereo these days, for what? >> it's worth.? >>? >> Anybody have suggestions or specs they'd like to share? Thanks in? >> anticipation of your advice.? >>? >> Regards,? >> Anna Gardberg? >? ? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------? Mischa Machius, PhD? Associate Professor? Department of Biochemistry? UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas? 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.; ND10.214A? Dallas, TX 75390-8816; U.S.A.? Tel: +1 214 645 6381? Fax: +1 214 645 6353?