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Bill, that's a pretty interesting take on Redcrosse. For me, it makes sense because I think part of his struggle is to transform his faith from a joyless deathwish into an affirmation of life. I see this as present from the beginning, in the ambiguities of "dead as living ever him adored": like Duessa, there's part of RC that images the savior as a corpse and worships his death. And since RC is, for most of the book, named after the bloody cross that serves as an icon of that death, there are strong suggestions that his attachment to the savior is a kind of melancholy incorporation of the crucified body. Broadly speaking, I believe that the most interesting approach to Book I goes straight to its theology, even at an introductory level. Not as static doctrine, but as the language in which early modern Christians thought through issues to which we might give other names, using the terms of psychoanalysis or phenomenology. If you look back at Harry Berger's mid-60s essay on Book I, you see that he thought so, too: he's analyzing the allegory in terms borrowed from Reformation theology. David On Oct 30, 2008, at 2:08 PM, William Oram wrote: > Yeah, I think he will be saved, but it's not clear that he's ever > fully peaceful in mind. He despairs (or comes close to it) during > treatment in the House of Holiness, and then he wants to die when > he's made it up the Mount of Contemplation, and wants to die again > when the dragon's breath is heating up his armor, and by the time we > get to the betrothal celebration we've got many minstrels making > melody/ To drive away the dull melancholy. Perhaps that's supposed > to measure the distance he's traveled from the House of Pride where > the lines appear earlier, but I see the repetition as suggesting > that you never get too far from despair while you're in this life. > Bill > > > William Oram > [log in to unmask] > 413-585-3322 > > >>>> anne prescott <[log in to unmask]> 10/30/08 1:37 PM >>> > As an addendum to my e-mail of a minute ago--Bill's cartoons are > wonderful and the one about the elephant patient is one I will use > next class as an addendum before we start Spenser's love poetry. Bill > isn't Redcrosse sort of pre-saved? Una tells him he's chosen. I agree > he never makes it to the New Jerusalem (it isn't time, yet) or marries > Una (too much work to do). Anne. > > On Oct 29, 2008, at 8:45 PM, William Oram wrote: > >> I spend two weeks on it in our thirteen-week survey course, so >> there's time to do all of Book I. Like Michael and some others I >> spend most of my time showing them how to read allegory, and I often >> begin with cartoons as a convention-driven picture-language (I used >> to use some wonderful old Herblock cartoons from the sixties with >> the personified bomb, and one, very relevant now, of an elephant >> lying dolefully on a couch staring at the ceiling and speaking to a >> man with a Freudian beard who is taking notes saying "Nobody loves >> me anymore.") But I don't think you can teach the allegory of Book >> I without attention to religion--or to what happens to Redcrosse. >> So I do teach it as concerned with salvation--though he never quite >> gets there. Bill >> >> >> >> William Oram >> [log in to unmask] >> 413-585-3322 >> >>>>> Linda Vecchi <[log in to unmask]> 10/29/08 12:12 PM >>> >> When I teach our survey course (at second year, here) I teach Book >> I, although >> time rarely allows for us to read the entire book. I found that by >> focusing on >> Redcrosse, I could devise a reasonably coherent narrative/thematic >> thread and >> have our discussion of FQ connect thematically to the other 'heroic >> tales' we >> had studied during the term (Beowulf, Sir Gawain, Faustus). My >> students seemed >> able to handle the text well. In my senior seminar course I have >> taught Books 1 >> and/or 3. >> >> Since our public school system suspended denominantional schools >> (Catholic, >> Protestant and Evangelical) only about 15 years ago, most of my >> students can >> relate to (and some even take umbrage at) the religious context of >> the work. >> In the years closely following 9/11, I also had some heated >> discussions about >> Spenser's (and Elizabethan England's) attitudes toward Muslim/Islamic >> characters. >> >> >> Quoting Marianne F Micros <[log in to unmask]>: >> >>> Sadly, I don't think it is much taught at all. Our first-year >>> course is a >>> 12-week one with little time! I'm wondering how many people drop >>> Spenser. I >>> teach some of the sonnets in the first year but work in books of >>> the FQ >>> (usually 3 or 5) in other courses. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Jean Goodrich <[log in to unmask]> >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:13:57 -0400 (EDT) >>> Subject: Re: Book I in survey courses >>> >>> Besides demonstrating a more sophisticated use of allegory than what >>> students will have seen in *Everyman* or *Second Shepherd's*, I >>> stress >>> Spenser's method of instructing the reader how to read as well as >>> the >>> disconnect between *seeming* and *being*. This allows us to look at >>> Redcrosse as in process of becoming Holiness, and not necessarily >>> there yet. >>> >>> I've also found an increasing lack of familiarity with the religious >>> background, including things as basic as differences between >>> Catholicism and >>> Protestantism. Students will get the Una/Redcrosse/Archimago >>> confrontation, >>> and love the Seven Deadlies, but they'll completely miss the >>> significance of >>> Abessa/Corceca/Kirkrapine and the repeated occurrences of Pride >>> beyond >>> Lucifera. >>> >>> Jean Goodrich >>> University of Arizona >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 5:48 AM, Michael Saenger >>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote: >>> >>>> I spend most of my time on Book I as an exploration of how >>>> allegory works. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> Quoting James Broaddus <[log in to unmask]>: >>>> >>>> How is Book I presently discussed in undergraduate survey courses? >>>> Back >>> in >>>>> my day, of course, it was discussed as the story of a fall and >>>>> consequent >>>>> redemption. Is it still so discussed in those courses? >>>>> >>>>> Jim Broaddus >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Retired, Ind. State.Univ. >>>>> 2487 KY 3245 >>>>> Brodhead, KY 40409 >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> >> >> Dr. Linda Vecchi >> Department of English >> Memorial University of Newfoundland >> St. John's, NL A1C 5S7