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Her own frame, p'raps, Barry; everything's art, all's grist for the laff-mill, thank goodness. Curious me, who are the stand-ups you most enjoy, past and present? A story or two wouldn't go amiss...... Judy 2008/10/14 Barry Alpert <[log in to unmask]> > Judy & Ken, > > I do jest, but not in this instance. In fact, I've been reading an > extended online discussion > on laughter as The desired response to readings within the very > broadly-defined so-called > New York School. Marcel Duchamp and John Cage elicited laughter from me > when I > experienced their talk, and David Antin certainly extrapolates from their > examples. > Distinguishing between stand-up and performance art is for me a very > particular > judgment, but often it's the overt "frame" within which the act occurs. In > addition, I > delight in encountering what I term "naive performance art" in "real life", > but stand-up is > rarely naive. Sarah Silverman has amused me when I've witnessed her > schtick on late- > night talk shows, and I await what she'll do with the break-up of her > marriage to Jimmy > Kimmel. I predict it will be more stand-up than performance art, though > she might put a > larger frame over it--perhaps a book. > > Barry Alpert > > > On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:54:29 -0400, Kenneth Wolman < > [log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Of course the original statement plus attacks on non-Japanese Haiku are > >the acts of an agent provocateur looking for a fight. Maybe they are > >themselves a form of performance art. That said, Barry's comments are > >provocative because of the weird line here that I gather David Antin > >also walks or walked: when are you performing and when are you doing > >stand-up Something? > > > >I had the experience--for it was that--yesterday of viewing (finally) an > >extremely odd documentary film called The Aristocrats. Few people will > >admit to knowing the film or the joke itself. In one version or another > >it probably is the dirtiest story ever told. For myself, an old friend > >of mine told me ONE version of The Aristocrats back in 1962. It was > >tame compared to the joke as it's evolved over the years. Nevertheless, > >I'm not sure how I got home. Stand-up *and* performance art...both, I > >suppose. The dancer and the dance? I can't tell a joke to save myself > >but yesterday I heard/saw the joke told AS a joke and then, via other > >performers, as performance art. I was particularly entranced by Sarah > >Silverman, an exquisitely beautiful young lady with a potty mouth that > >beggars description unless you quote her, which I will not. She was > >reclining on a couch or loveseat like a Goya Maja--the posture was > >certainly not like Gilbert Gottfried's classic schtick-worthy foul but > >riotous delivery at the Friar's Club. Silverman was playing instead of > >just telling a dirty joke. She said the joke was about her and her > >family. "We ARE The Aristocrats." It ended with her whispering of an > >encounter with an old-time radio broadcaster, Joe Franklin, concluding > >with "And then he raped me." She went about as far from the original > >story as you could go--the one requirement for the story is to end with > >the words "The Aristocrats!" Instead her ending was both absurd and > >truly grotesque. > > > >So you tell me: when to schtick turn into performance art or shall the > >twain never meet? > > > > >Judy Prince wrote: > >> Agreed, completely. > >> Stand-up, Barry? Surely you jest. > >> > >> Judy > >> > While not filled with optimism, I still feel "Poetry" is in much better > shape than before the > internet. Even then, it was in better shape than before rock & roll, with > the terms "poet" > and "poetry" being attached to figures (Patti Smith, Lou Reed, Bob Dylan) > whose audience > numbers in the millions. Just yesterday I was considering how a google > search on my > name and a rocking grid backing my oral rendition of texts could amplify > the audience for > a reading I'm scheduled to give in an area of this country where I wouldn't > claim to be > "known". More "hooks" available than ever before--why not use them. Which > reminds > me of the border between stand-up comedy and performance art, along which > I've been > known to walk. > > Barry Alpert > > > On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 05:02:09 +0100, David Bircumshaw > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > >Some people these days say that poetry is dead, some violently deny > >it. My current image of the art is that of Desdemona while being, and > >after, suffocated by Othello: murdered but still talking in its last > >gasps, raising up from its pillow on a final breath. The > >Wilhelm-Baynes translation of the I Ching has a line somewhere : > >'persistently ill, but still does not die' , which takes one beyond > >poor Desdemona, as of course her last revival is, well, curtains for > >her if not quite then the play. >