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That's a really difficult question and one that would mean a distinct definition of 'media arts'.
If we go by my department strategy it's an all encompassing field that of course has overlaps with what is now seen to be a more mainstream art form.

But in terms of my role being "redundant" the ICA cannot be seen to be showing any specific media arts works/exhibitions as it would make my redundancy illegal (not sure if that's the correct term, but hopefully you understand what I'm saying).

It's something that I would be interested in defining, if only for clarification of my own position or lack of it at the ICA.

From my own point of view I was always trying to facilitate work and artists to enable them to move onto other mainstream galleries/press. Not always easy as the Media Arts was always the more marginalised of the departments here - though not as much as the Talks dept. 

Rafael Lozano-Hemmer was a project that came directly to the Live and Media Arts department about 2.5 years ago. I think though that even if the department didn't exist the ICA would have been approached because of the proximity to Trafalgar Square. Whether or not it would have formed part of our programme is something I cannot answer.

best
emma



-----Original Message-----
From: Curating digital art - www.crumbweb.org [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lauren A Wright
Sent: 20 October 2008 16:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [NEW-MEDIA-CURATING] Live and Media Arts at the ICA


In response to what Bruce said, I have a question for Emma (if you feel put on the spot feel free to ignore me!): Do you think that in future the ICA would "categorically" refuse to participate in projects like the Rafael Lozano-Hemmer project coming up in November? I ask because my suspicion is it would not (though in a wierd way I hope I'm wrong): his work is all over London at the moment, including the Barbican and Haunch of Venison gallery, in addition to the big co-sponsored project of which the ICA is a part. He is clearly a "hot" artist at the moment who is receiving lots of institutional support despite working very much with media (this is not a judgment about his work or these projects, about which I'm yet to form an opinion). I wonder then whether we should see this as encourging or the opposite, suggesting that it's not the media Eshun is "catagorically" rejecting, but the networks and culture that "we" associate with media art to which Shiralee, Simon, and many others have pointed so far. So if you are an artist who uses media, but are connected to the "art world" networks associated with commercial galleries and the mainstream art press, you're in, if you distribute your work and the discourse around it in other ways (therefore lending the organisation less "art world" kudos), you're out?

Best
Lauren


On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Bruce Wands <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> I've been following this discussion with keen interest. I agree with 
> Christiane Paul's opinions, especially her response to the comment 
> that new media art "lacks the depth and culture urgency" as deeply 
> disturbing. Not only that it came from the ICA, an institution that 
> had the courage to put on "Cybernetic Serendipity" in 1968, but also 
> in the message it sends to other art institutions. The pejorative 
> manner in which it was delivered speaks poorly of the ICA and their 
> respect for artists. It also weakens every other new media 
> institution's position in the "traditional" art world, as those less 
> informed will use the ICA quote as validation to cut funding, grants, 
> exhibitions, etc.
>
> I saw Roger Malina's keynote at the opening of EMPAC last weekend. One 
> point he made was about the "new leonardos". Many others have 
> commented that globalization, social networking, technology and its 
> new creative tools have expanded the artist's palette. There is a new 
> generation of artists that has never known a world without computers. 
> The world they live in will most definitely impact their creative 
> expression. After all, isn't contemporary art a creative reflection of 
> current society? I, too, believe that the media arts will eventually 
> merge with contemporary art as this generation of artists matures, and 
> art institutions learn how to deal with it. Now that the ICA has dug 
> in and said that "there will be no more "media arts" at the ICA, how 
> do they intend to handle digital prints (i.e. the "Close to the
> Surface: Digital Presence" exhibition at the ICA), digital sculpture, and
> installation art that incorporates some form of technology? These are
> "traditional" art forms that are being made with "new media" tools. Are
> these creative works now banned, as well?
>
> Bruce Wands
>
>
>
>> On Oct 20, 2008, at 6:45 AM, Emma Quinn wrote:
>>
>>> Just to clarify the situation, I have been told categorically by 
>>> Ekow that as I am being made redundant there will be no more 'media 
>>> arts' at the ICA. Live arts will be covered by the exhibitions dept 
>>> as part of their programme and the music dept.
>>>
>>> best
>>> emma
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Curating digital art - www.crumbweb.org on behalf of 
>>> Christiane Paul
>>> Sent: Sun 10/19/2008 2:06 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [NEW-MEDIA-CURATING] Live and Media Arts at the ICA
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> I agree that termination of new media programs at cultural 
>>> institutions per se is nothing new, we have seen it before, for many 
>>> different reasons.
>>>
>>> I also agree with Simon's comment that the following statement by 
>>> Ekow Eshun wouldn't necessarily need to be read in a negative way:
>>>
>>> "I no longer feel that the artistic rationale for devoting 
>>> considerable institutional?attention to that art form - to the 
>>> extent of maintaining a dedicated department to its pursuance - can 
>>> be strongly made."
>>>
>>> This ideally would mean that new media arts are considered part of 
>>> contemporary artistic practice and find their place in the 
>>> institution's programming - something we presumably would all 
>>> support. (Of course the reality most of the time is that new media 
>>> arts drop off the map as soon as they lose their dedicated space).
>>>
>>> What I find deeply disturbing is the following comment:
>>>
>>> "New media based arts practice continues to have its place within 
>>> the arts sector. However it's my consideration that, in the main, 
>>> the art form lacks the depth and cultural urgency to justify the 
>>> ICA's continued and significant investment in a Live & Media Arts 
>>> department."
>>>
>>> Wow. (Live &) New media arts lack 1) depth and 2) cultural urgency.
>>>
>>> 1) Is it the first art form in the history of art that, overall, 
>>> lacks depth? One could make a very strong argument that any art form 
>>> produces works that lack depth, works that are mediocre, works that 
>>> are good and works that are outstanding. I guess new media arts are 
>>> exceptional after all.
>>>
>>> 2) New media arts is the only art form that uses the technologies, 
>>> which have profoundly changed societies around the planet, as a 
>>> medium. The information society, globalization, connectivity (from 
>>> the work place to 'social networking' / Web 2.0), immaterial labor  
>>> - the list could be much longer - are supported and enabled by these 
>>> technologies. While not all new media art comments on the social / 
>>> cultural / political condition, it seems to be *the* art form with 
>>> prime potential for cultural urgency. (And I'm not saying that any 
>>> other art form couldn't exhibit the latter).
>>>
>>> I suspect that many people in the traditional art world share 
>>> Eshun's opinion. To the best of my knowledge he is the first who 
>>> shuts down a program by blatantly dismissing the art form. I'm 
>>> looking forward to seeing his version of an "ambitious artistic 
>>> plan."
>>>
>>> Christiane
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Curating digital art - www.crumbweb.org on behalf of marc 
>>> garrett
>>> Sent: Sat 10/18/2008 11:46 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Live and Media Arts at the ICA
>>>
>>> Hi Simon & all,
>>>
>>> I agree with Simon. It does seem that the ICA are sending a strong 
>>> message that they wish to maintain an old fashioned, perspective on 
>>> things by keeping mediums and practices apart from each other. Such 
>>> an approach is a mistake and only serves to show the world outside, 
>>> how out of touch they are with contemporary culture as a whole.
>>>
>>> And yes, it is a great pity, not only for culture generally but also 
>>> for their audience, who are being sold a very limited vision of 
>>> things.
>>>
>>> It also sends a rather dispiriting message that they are no longer 
>>> an interesting or viable option to show at, or worthwhile 
>>> collaborating with. It also gives the impression that they are all 
>>> hiding behind some kind of castle, trying to hold together some 
>>> ideal, which does not relate to the world outside. It is a shame 
>>> that they have chosen not to expand and take on new forms of 
>>> creativity in a more positive manner. Yet, this is their choice and 
>>> perhaps it is more about keeping certain jobs in the ICA - at the 
>>> top. And unfortunately, those who are staying in these positions at 
>>> the top, are perhaps less interested in contemporary art and its 
>>> ever expanding, nuances. Not interested in relearning, adapting 
>>> their knowledge about media art and other related practices.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that Emma is probably best out of there.
>>>
>>> marc
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Johnny is right and I take back what I wrote before. Or, rather, I 
>>>> wish to finesse it. Media arts, in the sense they are understood at 
>>>> the ICA (art that employs media) is, as I stated before, well and 
>>>> truly part of the mainstream of arts practice and therefore not 
>>>> having a specific program to
>>>> engage it shouldn¹t be surprising nor necessarily a bad thing. However,
>>>> creative media practice which facilitates, by its very nature, an
>>>> expanded
>>>> notion of what art can be  well, that is what Johnny is proposing. It is
>>>> something that is a force for change, for creating new modalities, new
>>>> forms
>>>> of engagement, new social formations.
>>>>
>>>> In this respect the ICA¹s decision seems to evidence their wish not 
>>>> to be involved with any meaningful challenge of the status quo. It 
>>>> wishes to see
>>>> art that is ³art², music that is ³music² and cinema that is ³cinema².
>>>> That
>>>> is a great pity.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Simon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 18/10/08 12:40, "Professor SR Golding" <[log in to unmask]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Dear Emma and List
>>>>> It is disturbing, but not surprising, to hear of the kind of 
>>>>> short-sightedness and ill-conceived departure of live & media arts 
>>>>> from the ICA, especially under the misleading tag line of those 
>>>>> arts no longer being 'cutting edge'.  We find at the Univ of 
>>>>> Greenwich in London that our MA-PHD Media Arts Philosophy and 
>>>>> Practice Programme has increased over the years by 300%, with huge 
>>>>> home, EU, and international interest.  We have just established a 
>>>>> cross-fertilizing Media Arts Production BA/BSc with two Schools: 
>>>>> The Humanities and Social Sciences and School of Computing 
>>>>> Mathematical Sciences.  The cutting edge work of artists, combined 
>>>>> with philosophers, journalists and scientists has been and 
>>>>> continues to be exciting and provocative
>>>>> -- and our situation is not unique.  There are many universities,
>>>>> post-academic and creative commons environments that are doing
>>>>> precisely this kind of combination -- led by the live arts and
>>>>> encompassed in the broad term of 'media arts', where the latter
>>>>> ('media arts') points not to a 'sub-set' of technologies, but names
>>>>> the paradigm shift of our age (eg, after 'liberal arts'), where speed,
>>>>> energy, space, time embed themselves differently in the visual and
>>>>> sonic arts, or what has been termed elsewhere as the 'altermodern'.
>>>>>
>>>>> How this substantial and lush environment could have escaped the 
>>>>> eye of the Director at the ICA is not clear from his letter.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, what is much more obvious is that the role of the 'art 
>>>>> institute', and especially the ICA, seems to have lost its shine. 
>>>>> Perhaps art galleries/ contemporary art institutes never did 
>>>>> encourage cutting edge works -- but now, at least in terms of the 
>>>>> ICA, it definitely is not encouraging it.  The Gallery/institute 
>>>>> appears to have recoiled back to the safe shores of being a 
>>>>> service sector environment to the usual suspects of capital, 
>>>>> industry, and banality. Pity, really.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guess we'll just have to go elsewhere -- but then, isn't that the 
>>>>> usual story for 
>>>>> artists-philosophers-scientists-designers-curios-thinkers-doers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Johnny de Philo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Message from [log in to unmask] ---------
>>>>>  Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:23:43 -0700
>>>>>  From: marcialart <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Reply-To: marcialart <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Live and Media Arts at the ICA
>>>>>   To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Dear Emma,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry to hear about this.  It's sad for you and the ICA, and 
>>>>>>> astonishingly short-sighted on the part of the director, 
>>>>>>> especially as the ICA was THE germinal institution for new media 
>>>>>>> / computer based art with its pioneering 1968 presentation of 
>>>>>>> Cybernetic Serendipity curated by Jasia Reichardt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards and good wishes to you in the next phase of your 
>>>>>>> career, and congratulations on your accomplishments @ the ICA.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marcia Tanner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 17, 2008, at 10:11:13 AM, "Emma Quinn" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> From:   "Emma Quinn" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> Subject:    [NEW-MEDIA-CURATING] Live and Media Arts at the ICA
>>>>>>> Date:   October 17, 2008 10:11:13 AM PDT
>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> Apologies for the blanket e-mail and any cross postings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is with sadness that I am writing to announce the closure of 
>>>>>>> the ICA's Live and Media Arts Department. I have included a 
>>>>>>> statement by Ekow Eshun, the Artistic Director of the ICA below.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am continuing with the programme here until the end of 
>>>>>>> November 2008 and will then be looking to develop and expand the 
>>>>>>> programme with other
>>>>>>> partners and venues.  I will of course update you on new developments
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> they occur.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your support and interest in the department's 
>>>>>>> projects during my time at the helm, and please do make the most 
>>>>>>> of the rather full line-up running over the next couple of 
>>>>>>> months. It would be wonderful if you could continue to show your 
>>>>>>> support by attending what will be an exciting finale.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.ica.org.uk/?lid=12173
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have enjoyed my time at the ICA tremendously and this has been 
>>>>>>> a direct result of working with some fantastic artists and 
>>>>>>> practitioners. The opportunity and privilege to work on the many 
>>>>>>> exciting, thought-provoking and thoroughly enjoyable projects 
>>>>>>> over the last 3 years, has provided me with new challenges, joy, 
>>>>>>> energy, pride, insight,
>>>>>>> thrills and above all has made me very very happy! I am very much
>>>>>>> looking forward to continuing with these established relationships as
>>>>>>> well as generating new ones in the next stage of my career.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will be contacting everyone again before I leave with my 
>>>>>>> personal contact details should you wish to stay in touch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for your time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> emma
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- From Ekow Eshun, Artistic Director of the ICA ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Following a review of the ICA's programming activities I have 
>>>>>>> taken the decision to close the Live & Media Arts department 
>>>>>>> from the end of November 2008.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The ICA has led a pioneering role in new media arts practice 
>>>>>>> over the last decade and more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are proud of that legacy. However times change. And I no 
>>>>>>> longer feel that the artistic rationale for devoting 
>>>>>>> considerable institutional attention to that art form - to the 
>>>>>>> extent of maintaining a dedicated department to its pursuance - 
>>>>>>> can be strongly made.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an institution dedicated to the contemporary moment it is 
>>>>>>> important that we continually review the timeliness and 
>>>>>>> relevance of our activities and at times make decisions on that 
>>>>>>> basis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New media based arts practice continues to have its place within 
>>>>>>> the arts sector. However it's my consideration that, in the 
>>>>>>> main, the art form lacks the depth and cultural urgency to 
>>>>>>> justify the ICA's continued and significant investment in a Live 
>>>>>>> & Media Arts department. Following
>>>>>>> discussion with the ICA Council and the Arts Council - and agreement
>>>>>>> from both bodies - I have decided to close the department.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's also my view that the sheer breadth of activity that our 
>>>>>>> artistic programme encompasses means that we are often stretched 
>>>>>>> too thin as an
>>>>>>> organisation. Our technical, building and financial resources are
>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>> considerable strain and it is hard for us to communicate our aims to
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> audience with directness and clarity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In closing the Live & Media Arts department, we will be able to 
>>>>>>> invest greater resources in a more concentrated programme of 
>>>>>>> activities, allowing us to create a more ambitious artistic plan 
>>>>>>> for 2009/10. And in
>>>>>>> communication with the public, the focus of our activity will be
>>>>>>> exclusively on Visual Arts, Cinema, Talks and Music.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In addition, these changes will offer the opportunity for the 
>>>>>>> Digital Studio to be reconstituted as a dedicated Education 
>>>>>>> space, offering a valuable benefit to an important and growing 
>>>>>>> section of our audience
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---End---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Emma Quinn
>>>>>>> Director of Live & Media Arts
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Institute of Contemporary Arts
>>>>>>> The Mall, London, SW1Y 5AH
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>>> t: +44 (0)20 7766 1415
>>>>>>> e: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> w: www.ica.org.uk <http://www.ica.org.uk/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dogs Ears
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Online Art
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.ica.org.uk/dogsears
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  ----- End message from [log in to unmask] -----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Simon Biggs
>>>> Research Professor
>>>> edinburgh college of art
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> www.eca.ac.uk
>>>> www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
>>>>
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> www.littlepig.org.uk
>>>> AIM/Skype: simonbiggsuk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, 
>>>> number SC009201
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>


-- 
Lauren A Wright
83a Kimberley Gardens
London N4 1LD
+44 (0)79 8129 2734
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