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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Dear Cecilia, I agree with Otfried on the lexical items 'coactina' and 'super litteris'. The sequence of thought appears to be as follows: 1. Iudaeos vero fenerantes super pignora ... tolerabat 2. Tamen super litter[a]s christianorum periuria et coactina ministeria usurarie pravitatis non permittebat e[i]s ips[i]s 3. Nec [permittebat; understood from the preceding] ali[i]s public[i]s usurari[i]s fenerari _ministeria_ would then be the direct object of _non permittebat_. Converting the following accusatives to datives complementing _non permittebat_ renders the thought in in standard Latin. If I were editing, though, I would leave them as accusatives and explain in a note, as it's not clear here whether your author actually used the dative in these instances or instead started a clause with _ministeria_ as the direct object of _non permittebat_ but then switched over to _non permittebat eos ipsos ... alios publicos usurarios_ and failed to delete _ministeria_ and its complements. Just a suggestion. Best, John Dillon On Wednesday, October 1, 2008, at 4:40 am, Otfried Lieberknecht wrote: > >Iudeos vero fenerantes super pignora, et si pro neccesitate humilis > plebis > >ad persuasionem aliquorum de suo concilio tolerabat, tamen super > litteris > >christianorum periuria et coactina ministeria usurarie pravitatis, > non permittebat > >eos ipsos nec alios publicos usurarios fenerari. Et ne huius litteras > facerent > >compleri suis officialibus districtius prohibebat. > > Dear Cecilia > > "coactina" seems to be a misspelling of "coactiva", and I suppose that > "super litteris" should rather be read "super litteras", because the > wole passage seems to be based on the distinction between lending > "super pignora" (on pawn) and lending "super litteras" (on borrower's > note) as it can be found also in other prohibitions of this kind. > > As to your question, I too don't know how to connect the passage > "periuria et coactina ministeria usurarie pravitatis", and for this > reason I am also not sure where to put "christianorum" (notes issued > by Christian borrowers?). Translating into my English, which some may > find no less troublesome than the original Latin: > > "While he tolerated, on the advise of some of his counsellors with > respect to the nediness of the populace, that Jews might lend on pawn, > he nevertheless permitted neither to those same Jews nor to other > public moneylenders to lend on borrowers' notes [...]. And he defended > strictly to his officials to acknowledge such notes." > > Yet I am confident that other members will be able to offer better help! > > Kind regards, O. > > Dr. Otfried Lieberknecht > D-40477 Duesseldorf > Tel. +49 (0)172 407 6073 > mailto:[log in to unmask] > http://www.lieberknecht.de ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html