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Apparently, BL hold a microfilm copy of a thesis and make a duplicate microfilm copy of it for loan when someone makes a request. This duplicate microfilm is then discarded upon return to BL! When I discovered this last year, I didn't believe it at first - what a complete waste of time and resources. Joanne Joanne Docherty Serials/Document Delivery Direct Line: +44 (0) 141 330 1895 Fax: +44 (0) 141 330 4952 Library University of Glasgow Hillhead Street Glasgow G12 8QE Scotland UK www.lib.gla.ac.uk The University of Glasgow, charity number SC004401 -----Original Message----- From: For interlibrary-loan and document supply services. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Graham Titley Sent: 16 October 2008 11:12 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: EThOS status 13:00 15/10 (and the microform service) (fwd) Plymouth has been receiving these apply Ethos replies since late August - and have been sat on our failed requests awaiting the service ever since! BLDSC have really made a mess of this - withdrawing a service without having a viable alternative ready, tested and operational! Plymouth, like many institutions, will definitely not lend paper copies of theses, even given the current situation. [We will make the occasional exception in special circumstances (usually disability reasons)]. I am not sure where this 'film every time' statement comes from. Every time I've toured BLDSC I have been shown the miles of cabinet shelves containing microfilms of UK Theses. It might be a misinterpretation of a reply forwarded to this list where it was stated that they are filmed on demand - but didn't state perhaps - not if already available. We, like others I guess, have received plenty of "Use" replies to theses requests to BLDSC. In any case, BL doesn't store the paper copy, it is returned to the institution. Given the deterioration in quality, microfilm from microfilm is not a route I'd like to go! In regards to the technology, we have invested in retaining and repairing microfilm readers mainly for this purpose. Most public libraries maintain their readers for their local history and newspaper archive. BL has also made it quite clear (as recently as April this year) that it saw Microfilm as the archival standard (not digital). How does this tally with we are now being told in regard to e-theses? Microfilm is used by many of the research institutes across the world and they generally have no intention of changing their policy. Come on BL get moving - researchers have submission target dates and need the service. Microfilm may not present the UK research community in a good light - but at least the information was available. Ethos may be, and most probably is, the future - but we need a delivery service NOW! Regards Graham Graham Titley Document Delivery and Copyright Librarian University of Plymouth Drake Circus Plymouth PL4 8AA Tel: 01752 587162 or 587161 Email: [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: For interlibrary-loan and document supply services. [ mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Christopher Beevers Sent: 16 October 2008 10:27 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: EThOS status 13:00 15/10 (and the microform service) (fwd) Hi Margaret/List members We have had two "reapply via EThOS" responses to requests we thought we were getting under the wire on Friday. I phoned customer services to ask how about it, given the delay in EThOS, only to be told there was no way and we would just have to wait. I was not best pleased! These requests are required quite quickly so we are having to put our hopes in the awarding institutions being prepared to lend their paper copies. Is this the experience generally ? Perhaps the British Thesis service could explain why they can't continue to supply us with microfilms as least in the interim until EThOS is up and running. Cheers Chris Beevers Document Delivery Supervisor University of Huddersfield Tel. 01484 472051 -----Original Message----- From: For interlibrary-loan and document supply services. [ mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Margaret Dillon Sent: 16 October 2008 10:19 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: EThOS status 13:00 15/10 (and the microform service) (fwd) Dear Colleagues Why on earth have BL been copying a microfilm every time it loaned? No wonder it cost a fortune. Why has this practice not been queried before? Is this what happens with American ones held on microfilm/fiches? Is this an area where FIL could play a part, organising an information day or liasing with BL? In the end the supply of etheses may not be an Interlending issue but because there is currently an issue for our researchers and access to theses is uncertain any information would be welcome. Regards Margaret Dillon xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Mrs Margaret Dillon Interlending and Document Supply J B Morrell Library University of York Heslington York YO10 5DD United Kingdom 01904 433876 [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask] xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: For interlibrary-loan and document supply services. [ mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of A.M. Zammer Sent: 16 October 2008 09:59 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: EThOS status 13:00 15/10 (and the microform service) (fwd) Dear Jean and colleagues Thanks for your email - I haven't signed up to the e-theses list, I guess I have better do so as I am missing out on various pieces of information. I can understand some of the answers but the bit about 6 weeks supply sounds rather far-fetched. We normally get them within a few days and also I don't understand about them copying a theses every time they supply- what's this about? Also our readers only pay £3 for an ILL but with Ethos they may (if the awarding University doesn't pay) have to pay £41.50 to view (if they are the first researcher). However, I don't think that what we feel will change their minds and I guess we will just have to put up with the situation and deal with some unhappy readers! Best wishes Alison Zammer Inter-Library Loans Cambridge University Library West Road Cambridge CB3 9DR Tel: ++44 1223 333039 On Oct 15 2008, JI Bradford, Information Management wrote: >Dear ILL colleagues > >This message came on the E-Theses list and I thought you might like to >see it and my response. > >Jean > >---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >Date: 15 October 2008 13:22 +0100 >From: "JI Bradford, Information Management" ><[log in to unmask]> >To: UK discussion list for electronic theses and dissertations ><[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: EThOS status 13:00 15/10 (and the microform service) > >Dear Anthony > >I think the question which ILL Librarians want answered is why the >British Library cannot continue to lend the microforms already in its >stock, while we wait for EThOS to build up its coverage. We understand >perfectly why BL cannot continue to add to the microforms and is >introducing EThOS. In fact from the e-mails I have seen, we welcome >EThOS as making theses available much more widely and easily than before. > >No-one from the BL has provided an answer that I have seen to the >question why microforms of theses already in place at Boston Spa cannot >be lent as before if the thesis is not yet contained in EThOS. Unless >BL continue to make microforms available which they already possess, we >are being denied access to many theses including I believe those from Cambridge University. > >If you can give me an answer to this question, I'd be very grateful and >so would a lot of other ILL librarians > >Jean > >--On 15 October 2008 13:11 +0100 "Troman, Anthony" ><[log in to unmask]> >wrote: > >> >> Dear Colleagues >> >> PLEASE FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO YOUR ILL LIBRARIAN IF THEY DON'T ALREADY >> RECEIVE IT >> >> We are now narrowing down the causes of our performance issues with >> EThOS. Once identified we can work out how to fix it. >> >> In the meantime, please reassure your researchers/users/customers >> that the service is coming shortly and to keep checking the >> ethos.ac.uk website and the service itself. >> >> I realise you are in the front line and must have to field difficult >> questions and I apologise once again for the delay. >> >> A number of people have asked why we can't reinstate the microform >> service or run it in parallel. In short, it is losing huge sums of >> money and cannot be sustained. It has only lasted this long because >> we knew EThOS is coming along. Otherwise, some very difficult >> questions about the service would have had to be addressed. Reading >> below, I hope you can understand why the microform service cannot be continued. >> >> Here are some facts: >> >> >> The British Library thesis microform service: >> * is over 30 years old >> * has never been updated >> * supplies on out of date formats (microform) which can be read by >> fewer and fewer people leading to more and more returns & refunds >> * copies a thesis every time it is supplied (including when loaned) >> * is slow -- supply times of up to 6 weeks >> * does not support Open Access >> * is manually intensive and therefore expensive >> * is run on a commercial basis (the researcher pays) >> * is unsustainable and is losing increasingly large sums of money >> each year >> >> >> >> The current British Library microform service does NOT offer a >> positive view of UK Higher Education to researchers in the UK and >> around the world. >> >> >> >> EThOS: >> * does NOT replace the current microform system -- the microform >> system is unsustainable >> * does NOT digitise from microform due to the poor quality achieved >> (black & white, edited, 2nd generation copy, etc.) >> * supports immediate online desktop delivery to researchers the >> world over >> * meets the expectations of the modern day information seeker >> * generates e-content by digitising paper theses currently held on >> library shelves around the country >> * adds e-content to institutional repositories by returning >> digitised theses to the originating institution >> * only creates a copy once -- downloads and hard copy are generated >> from the digitally stored copy >> * preserves theses from participating institutions in perpetuity >> * supports the Open Access aspirations of UK HE >> * is operated on a cost-recovery basis by The British Library > > > >---------------------- >Jean I. Bradford >Serials and Inter-Library Document Supply University of Bristol >Information Services Arts and Social Sciences Library Tyndall Avenue >Bristol BS8 1TJ > >Tel: 0117 331 8367 Fax: 0117 925 5334 >[log in to unmask] > >VAT No. GB 139085946 > >---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- > > > >---------------------- >Jean I. Bradford >Serials and Inter-Library Document Supply University of Bristol >Information Services Arts and Social Sciences Library Tyndall Avenue >Bristol BS8 1TJ > >Tel: 0117 331 8367 Fax: 0117 925 5334 >[log in to unmask] > >VAT No. GB 139085946 > -- This transmission is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you receive it in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and remove it from your system. If the content of this e-mail does not relate to the business of the University of Huddersfield, then we do not endorse it and will accept no liability.