Thank you for this wonderful information, Pierre, not the least the
political implications you suggest.
I can say nothing about spoken Arabic because I only know a very few words
in it. However, I've studied a very little (would love to study more) of
the written classical Arabic. It is, of course, fundamentally simple to
learn-----and profoundly beautiful. It immediately recalled my studying
Gregg (invented by a Scot) shorthand writing when I trained to be an
executive secretary. A similar "stroke-matched-to-sound" system; so very
practical (modern Korean is the same, though the shapes are primarily square
or round).
A novice in reading the poetry, I nevertheless find Rumi maximally
fantastic! His humility, grand suprising figures, humour----all and more
give so much joy and soul-discovery. Can you tell us some of your thoughts
about his work or his life?
P'raps this for another Sunday.
[an aside: Morroccan food, marvelous!!!]
Best,
Judy...... but today for Partick,,,,,,,jooooooooodles
2008/8/31 Pierre Joris <[log in to unmask]>
> Dave, (et alii on this thread)
>
> you are right — there are tremendous problems with the English translations
> of most contemporary Arab poets. At one level the concerns of the poets in
> question & the work they are doing / have to do in terms of complexities of
> writing in (classical) Arabic, i.e. in the fixed form of written Arabic even
> when it is slightly "simplified" into what the Westerners call "Modern
> Standard Arabic" while most speak & function daily in more dialectical
> versions of the language. "Modern" Arabic poetry only came to the fore in
> the fifties via the Sheikh ("Poetry") group & magazine around Adonis et alii
> in Beirut (cf my intro to the Arabic poetry section in vol 2 of my _Poems
> for the Millennium_ ) and breaking the traditional forms has been a major
> achievement, which of course is not visible in the (often flat) translations
> into standard "free verse" in English. Prose is a different (easier?) matter
> & to check out Darwish as a major writer you can also go to his memoir of
> the Lebanese war when he was living under the bombs in Beirut (Memory for
> Forgetfulness, U of Cal Press).
>
> This spring in Tangiers I had a long discussion with a good friend, the
> Moroccan poet Abdallah Zrika, someone brought up in one of the worst slums
> in Casablanca, who by all means was destined to illiteracy, except there was
> a flame, a desire to write in him, & he started writing young, studying
> written Arabic, becoming an outrageous and inspired beat-like poet who'd
> draw 2 to 3 thousand kids to his readings at the local Universities, sell
> hundreds of copies of his basically home-made chap books, before being
> thrown in jail for 3 years as such popularity in a poet who spoke directly
> to the rebellious young & the workers was not to be tolerated by King
> Hassan's regime. I have heard Zrika called the Ginsberg / Ferlinghetti /
> Bukowski of Morocco — and yet, as we talked about the language problems and
> the use of darija (Moroccan dialectical Arabic) he was adamantly opposed to
> this, saying that poetry, contemporary or not, and certainly his own was
> only possible in "classical" Arabic, even if form-wise he completely break
> with any of the traditional structures. Interesting too is that in a culture
> where poetry is a very popular art, people from every walk of life love and
> know how to appreciate spoken poetry (i.e. even those who are unable to
> read) in the most classical form of language. It is a fact that many people
> know a range of classical Arabic poetry, be it from the great "modern"
> Arabic period (in the 10/11th century the poets in Baghdad created a totally
> urban & modern poetry & poetics, as Adonis points out, as avant-garde as
> Baudelaire was in the Euro-19th century) back to the great pre-Islamic odes,
> the Mu'allaqat, and forwards to a range of both popular and erudite poems
> from later centuries.
>
> So it's a very complex — & indeed, often vexing — question, & too much to
> deal with in one quick sunday morning post here,
>
> Pierre
>
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2008, at 4:26 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote:
>
> Al
>>
>> I don't know too much about courageous, fear I am better acquainted with.
>>
>> I'd like to like Darwish in translation, however it doesn't quite work
>> for me. In the little world I know about, there's a friend of mine
>> whose son is going on trial on Monday for something appalling, now
>> whatever the rights and wrongs of things, he is still her son, I don't
>> have answers to these matters, wish I did.
>>
>> Hope the Calderon goes well!
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> 2008/8/30 Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>:
>>
>>> Maybe the challenge of Darwish is that he writes poetry that reachs
>>> into the world as it is and which matters to his audience - excavating
>>> the truths for multiple deceptions and in particular self-deceptions.
>>> That's clear I think even through the odd clunkinesses of the
>>> translation, which is still enjoyable to read. It's courageous and it
>>> speaks and it doesn't compromise the complexities of poetry.
>>>
>>> Anyway, off to see Calderon tonight. Which I am muchly looking forward
>>> to.
>>>
>>> A
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au
>>> Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
>>> Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Bircumshaw
>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Hey,
>
> Want a free Obama/Biden sticker? MoveOn's giving them away totally
> free--even the shipping's free. I just got mine, and wanted to share the
> opportunity with you.
>
> Click this link to get a free Obama/Biden sticker:
>
>
> http://pol.moveon.org/barackstickers/?id=-10178572-xj0q2zx&rc=manual_forward
>
> Thanks!
> ____________________________________________________________
> The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan
> ___________________________________________________________
> Pierre Joris
> 244 Elm Street
> Albany NY 12202
> h: 518 426 0433
> c: 518 225 7123
> o: 518 442 40 71
> Paris: 09.52.80.14.18
> Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10
> email: [log in to unmask]
> http://pierrejoris.com
> Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com
> ____________________________________________________________
>
