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First of all apologies to all for the typo in the subject, just my aged arthritic fingers (and no spell check in that area)(now corrected)
 
Good points from another respondent below.
 
I have also had an email form someone who said the system in their library was to put white slips in the tickets of those Great and good who were not charged fines. So my experiences on this sort of hypocrisy was not isolated.
 
I do think the agenda on this needs to be moved on, and cant we have a day in' The Year of Reading (Roy, are you there), where we will introduce a new policy across the sector to stop charging fines! I think it is immoral to do so, it is negative, and it is actually unnecessary.
 
f 
Frances Hendrix
Martin House Farm, Hilltop Lane, Whittle le Woods, Chorley, Lancs PR6 7QR, UK
tel: 01257 274 833.  fax: 01257 266 488
email: [log in to unmask]

 
Something that occured to me whilst reading your e-mail about library fines. DVD rental companies such as Amazon and Lovefilm do not charge fines, they simply don't send out another DVD until the previous one has been returned and they seem to be flourishing. They do, admittedly, charge monthly membership fees but isn't this roughly equivalent to the Council Tax that everyone pays (whether they are members of a local library or not). Maybe libraries need to think more along these lines.
 
Also when I was a student at Sheffield University (admittedly about 10 years ago now, things may have changed since) an automatic block was put on your account if you had an overdue book and no further borrowing was possible until it was returned or renewed. No fines were charged. For most students the block was enough push for the book to be returned and, as you say, there was no financial bad feeling between the student and the library.
 
I look forward to hearing more on this, sometimes thorny, issue.



Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 11:12:26 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Liubrary Elf
To: [log in to unmask]


A few people have emailed me off list about this fines issue, and some additional thoughts of my own. I have put them together.
 
Can I say that as it is August I suppose we are all having a trip down memory lane, as this 'issue' ,(excuse the pun), has been around since I first worked in a  public library, some 40 plus years ago. I disagreed with the practice then, and thought it was a worthless task, that created ill will and probably didn't make a surplus over what all the costs related to it added up to.Of course in those days there was no automation and it was all down to pen,paper, ink, postage etc. And as I mentioned before it was selective in some libraries (disgraceful).
 
We are now more than mid way through 2008, libraries have changed in many ways and  there have been many innovations, BUT book loans and users have not increased.Most public libraries  are NOT 'destinations of choice' and we live in a changing world with lots of competition. What sane business person would carry on a system which actually put customers off?
What has happened to the philosophy 'free at the point of use', should this be amended to' free until you stray slightly over the usually arbitrary date we have applied to get it back'?
some other comments made include:-
 
 
Just another follow up to this thread.  Not only is it likely that the vast majority would be returned anyway, but there is strong evidence that many people, once they build up a hefty fine, are less likely to return the items because they don't wish to pay (sometimes they even believe that the fines will be so high [not maximum cutoff] that they just couldn't afford to bring them back).
I actually kept track over two years of the level of loss of stock for non returned overdue items.  The cumulated value per annum was ( for a pop of c160,000) about £20,000.  It would be so much better to forego the fines and get the books back!   
 
and
 
 
Basically I think the public response is the same as your opening shot-- it's an old fashioned way of giving service and penalises the people who can least afford it and most need the service.   It shouldn't be regarded as income generation from people who already pay a lot in council tax.  It's a negative arrangement -- and certainly puts off those younger people whom we desperately need to attract.

Shouldn't the questions being asked be:-
 

The first should be to ask the public how they feel about fines etc in a proper piece of market research
 
The second is to discover how much is generated by the fine system-- and how much it costs to operate.  At the same time we need a proper estimate of how much is lost through theft/ non returns.
 
There are quite a lot of library authorities in the US who no longer operate fines. They could provide useful info, too.
 

 f

Frances Hendrix
Martin House Farm, Hilltop Lane, Whittle le Woods, Chorley, Lancs PR6 7QR, UK
tel: 01257 274 833.  fax: 01257 266 488
email: [log in to unmask]


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