well said Lynne
people are much too precious, and like you I enjoy the banter, and the ideas
f
Frances Hendrix
Martin House Farm, Hilltop Lane, Whittle le Woods, Chorley, Lancs PR6 7QR, UK
tel: 01257 274 833. fax: 01257 266 488
email: [log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: Lynne Jones
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: Leadership and the role of public libraries (originally Cipfa....)
Yes but what's wrong with a bit of freeform chat on a Friday? (or any day) Don't discussions of this kind spark offshoots and sometimes ideas? Fairly often comments are made that seem to put the lid on discussion - if I were a young up and coming librarian instead of an old and ex-one I'd be scared to say anything!
My answer to your original question is that I don't know the answer. I am surprised that no one has supplied the info you requested so far.
In the meantime is there no place on this list for further discussion of issues that have spun off from your posting and from others? The issues that cause the controversy are so critical to the future of libraries. And no trees were destroyed.
Lynne
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From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick London
Sent: 29 August 2008 15:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Leadership and the role of public libraries (originally Cipfa....)
At the risk of lowering the tone of this edifying debate, my original question was a quite practical one related to the proposed changes to the CIPFA form, and who came up with the changes in the first place (and why?). These discussions do have a tendency to spiral way beyond initial intentions, don't they?
No one has posted anything useful and I have had my meeting now anyway....
Nick
(Principal Systems Officer
Nottinghamshire Libraries
0115 982 9029)
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National Year Of Reading: I am currently reading...
John Gribbin: 'The universe: a biography'
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Lynne Jones <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: "lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries" <[log in to unmask]>
29/08/2008 15:23
Please respond to
Lynne Jones <[log in to unmask]>
To
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cc
Subject
Re: Leadership and the role of public libraries
Excellent response - some librarians get very polarised!
1. "Jumped up internet café" - what is wrong with that? - the books are still there although I accept there are issues surrounding selection, funding etc in some cases. The government left an unfortunate legacy by not considering the sustainability of the People's Network despite the fact that their own websites gain a whole new audience and it saves them time and money by disseminating their info for free - and it's a useful service both to those who don't have Pcs at home and those who do but might be away from their home base.
2. Books versus Computers - it's not a war - the two can successfully cohabit and complement each other in the right buildings.
3. Quiet space versus noise and chatter - agree that this should be provided in those libraries that can provide it - if they are the size of a broom cupboard this can be difficult. As someone who has had to work with music or the radio on since I was 12 I personally prefer noise - we are all different but specific desires can be catered for.
4. Reference services - I hope no one is suggesting anyone goes back to Ye Old Reference Librarian and insisting that only they can give the answers to all questions. The Internet is growing and developing all the time and so are people's skills - if they all had to queue up to ask said YORL that would be an anachronism. Yes - staff definitely have a role to play in supporting and training but as facilitators and not academic gods - is that dumbing down (a term I also hate) or is it progress? Where I worked the longest waiting lists we had were for free Internet sessions for the public showing how much they want to learn to navigate the web and how they looked to our library staff to help them.
5. Ideas Stores - would love one near me. And as pictures can speak louder than words I would suggest you all take photos of the exteriors of all your libraries - many of which will be quite shabby or dull based on my experience (and include pictures of the building problems you can't afford to fix) and then send them in with your stats whatever they are. Or form a group on Flickr and post them there. Ask the question - would you be able to take them seriously if you were a potential new user? - say, youngish, used to smartly fitted out shops, TV ads and vibrant design? And I am NOT saying libraries are exactly like shops - just that we need to adopt best practices wherever they are seen to be successful and wherever they occur, and, as you say, for this generation.
Lynne
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From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Richard Aird
Sent: 29 August 2008 14:04
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Leadership and the role of public libraries
Having read this thread with interest, I fail to see where anyone was 'dismissed as having nothing as valid to say', 'painted as irrelevant', or their points 'rudely dismissed'. My interpretation of Roy's post was not that negative opinion should be ignored or whitewashed, but where opinion is unnecessarily negative in the extreme (perhaps because of some sentiment about past successes) we need to look beyond this in order to move forward and succeed again.
You suggest winning staff over with results rather than 'vapid statements' - results require staff and stakeholder buy-in from the outset, and can't be achieved by librarians and managers alone. Only by illustrating our vision, can we begin to take steps towards achieving our goals.
As for the previous criticism aimed at the Idea Stores, I feel this is unfair and is a disservice to the staff that work in them. Personally, I feel the phrase 'dumbed down' is used too much, and is often applied where people aren't comfortable with, or supportive of something (particularly concepts). I would hope that Idea Store users receive a level of service that is as professional and good quality, as they would in any of our most traditional libraries. If this isn't the case, then surely this is a flaw in the borough library service (and management of) rather than the concept or stores themselves.
It's easy to pull something new apart, particularly when it doesn't fit the ordinary mould, but at least some library services are bold enough to try these things! I would rather have a vibrant, modern and well used service that meets the needs and desires of the communities it serves, than an under-used, irrelevant library fit only for the generation in which it was built.
Just my personal opinions, of course.
Regards,
Richard.
Richard Aird
Senior Officer, ICT & Learning
Tel: 01389 608040
Mob: 07903 228952
Email: [log in to unmask]
Libraries Section
Educational Services
19 Poplar Road
Broadmeadow Industrial Estate
DUMBARTON
G82 2RJ
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David McMenemy
Sent: 29 August 2008 10:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Leadership and the role of public libraries
Patronising much?
I certainly did not miss Roy's point. He was advocating (rightly in his position and kudos to him for doing it on here) for the positive messages to be taken forward in public libraries. I cannot disagree with that.
The point I was making was that people who are deemed to be negative may also well have valid points that are rudely dismissed as old fashioned. This is the standard managerialist attempts at control of debate. You dismiss people as having nothing valid to say, that they are out of touch and behind in the times. It is dangerous, intellectually lazy, and kills real debate and progress. It is also not worthy of a sector that is supposedly about professionalism. You don't kill debate by painting colleagues as irrelevant.
This is all about discourse. Good leaders listen to all voices, because it just might be the case that the supposed naysayers have a point! If they don't then win them over with results, not with vapid statements.
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David McMenemy
Department of Computer and Information Sciences
University of Strathclyde
Glasgow, Scotland
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The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC015263.
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