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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Paul, I do mean the term. The concept was "in the making" in the twelfth century. Bernard opposed both feast & doctrine - as was noted in a previous message, the former supporting the latter. The term we use is indeed late, but it is not without precedent. The idea of Mary being "sine macula et ruga" existed in the texts I read. One odditty, related to the biblical texts. The fact that Gabriel referred to Mary as "gratia plena" did not show up in the Immaculist arguments. I still find that odd. Tom Izbicki Paul Chandler wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > Yes, good point. I don't think Augustine is able to quote any of his > "authorities" as using the same vocabulary. > > Your point about "Immaculate Conception" is also well taken, if we are > talking about the term itself and not the concept, which as you know > better than the rest of us was bitterly fought over even in the 12th > century. The introduction of the feast in the 15th century may have > intensified some resistance, but it proved to be largely last-ditch > (please correct if wrong), but a simultaneous effect was to disarm > resistance under the banner "lex orandi lex credendi" (hardly such a > strong argument in the case of new feasts, but that is also another > matter). -- Paul Chandler > > > 2008/7/28 Tom Izbicki <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and > culture > > Paul, > > I have no doubt Augustine thought he had precedent, but he may be > the author of our term "original sin". > > The term Immaculate Conception is very late medieval. Usually the > arguments focused either on the celebration of a feast of Mary's > Conception (which Bernard opposed in a letter to the canons of > Lyons) or the concept itself. But the term is not in the > quodlibeta and polemics I have read while working on the > resistance of most Dominicans to either feast or concept.. > Immaculate seems to appear first in the Mass texts for the feat > prepared by Leonardo Nogarola for Pope Sixtus IV in 1477. > > See my article: > > "The Immaculate Conception and Ecclesiastical Politics from the > Council of Basel to the Council of Trent: The Dominicans and Their > Foes," /Archiv für Reformationsgeschichte/ 96 (2005): 145-170. > > Tom Izbicki > > Paul Chandler wrote: > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion > and culture > > Also, Tom, Augustine was at pains to claim -- whether > justifiably or not is another matter -- that his notion of > peccatum originale was based on earlier traditions in East and > West. See especially Contra Iulianum lib. 1, where he quotes > Irenaeus, Cyprian, Reticius of Autun, Olympius, Hilary, > Ambrose, Innocent I, Gregory Nazianzen, the Synod of > Diospolis, John Chrysostom (at length), Basil, and Jerome. > > Perhaps it's obvious, or perhaps worth saying anyway, that the > fact that the Immaculate Conception is of 19th-century > definition does not mean it was not of medieval concern. It's > well known that Bernard of Clairvaux opposed Eadmer's idea as > an unwelcome innovation, and that nearly all the leading > theologians of the late 12th and 13th centuries opposed it > (Peter Lombard, Alexander of Hales, Bonaventure, Albert the > Great, Thomas Aquinas, &c.). The Franciscans William of Ware > and Duns Scotus persuaded their followers of the opposite > position. In mid-15th century, Paris and other universities > began to require an oath to defend the doctrine, and even > Thomist Dominican opposition eventually weakened. -- Paul Chandler > > > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it > to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the > message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order > to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, > visit our web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html