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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Conlegae Doctissimae, may I interfere with a late night comment (ECE time) that in my opinion - arguably on standard patristic account - neither of the pictures (that is, neither Giotto or the Chora mosaic) is "erroneous"? :) - since both of them depict the meeting of Anne and Joachim AFTER the annunciations to them that they will have a child - a theme described by the Protevangelium of James, and of which it is the earliest and only testimony (late 2nd c). The PEoJ, however, makes it very clear (by the difference of the Annunciations, and by the difference in the description of the two births, that of Mary and that of Jesus) that on its account Mary was NOT conceived supernaturally (opp. to the birth of Christ, Jn 1, 13, 'born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God). She was born of blood, of the will of flesh and the will of man - which is _symbolised_ by the kiss exchanged by her parents, both of whom are on the pictures .... :) And, btw, there was no doctrine of the original sin in the second century, after all. :) Again, Byzantine / Greek theology never thought of Mary as being born in the non-human (supernatural) way. She was born by providence, no question, but - if one would look for a parallel - like Samuel to Hannah. The "immaculate conception" (the theological point of which I never understood, I must confess) seems to be a very late and very Latin development :) But it was fascinating to see the "house" of Anne and Joachim in Jerusalem last week (right at the Lions' Gate on the Via Dolorosa) ... Valete, George Gyorgy Gereby associate professor Mediaeval Studies Department Central European University Budapest V. Nador u. 9. H-1051 Hungary Email: [log in to unmask] Skype: ggereby4 Phone/Fax/a.m.: + 36.1.34 12 634 Mobile: + 36.30.99 69 874 >>> Diana Wright <[log in to unmask]> 08. 07. 27. 23:08 >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > I've "heard" that Giotto's painting of the meeting at the Golden Gate is supposed to depict the moment of Mary's conception. If this is the case, it is G's error. It was hardly a cynical attempt by him or anyone else to bolster the dogma of M's I.C. > MG > > Marjorie Greene > http://medrelart.shutterfly.com There is also an erroneous mosaic of the annunciation to St. Anne in the Kariye Djami/Church of the Chora in Istanbul, which slightly postdates Giotto. DW ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html