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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Jim, Christopher and others, Interesting quote, Christopher. And yes, Jim, I did think of the Victorines and Hugh (naturally!!) but the phrase itself is interesting, since christian manuscripts from late antiquity forward had texts and pictures--and not just as Gregory has it, pictures for the illiterate; (Hugh has that same "topos" in one of his analyses of the relation of the works of creation to those of restoration and who can read these "books"). what is perhaps more interesting is the case of Bede. The church at Wearmouth had pictures (i.e. paintings on panels, one presumes, cf. the ref later to Peter Hunter Blair) that Benedict Biscop obtained from Rome (on his own or through the efforts of others.) Bede describes these and their placement. He calls the entire painting a pictura; a pictura contains imagines, which PHB understands as individual divine or human figures in a pictura. According to PHB's account of Bede (The World of Bede, reissue with corrections, CUP, 1990 [it would seem]), pp. 172-173) the walls of St. Peter's church had paintings of the Gospels on the south wall and of the Apocalypse on the north wall. Bede describes another painting or several paintings that show(s) the BVM and 12 apostles (see PHB p. 173 for details of this and speculation on where it was placed.) PHB speculates that the paintings (which were brought from Rome) may have been done in wax on linen, then affixed to wooden panels. PHB also refers to Gregory's attitude toward images and compares it with Bede's. Also the Codex Amiatinus, fol. IIr-IIIr had a plan of the tabernacle of Moses, with descriptive annotations. Cf. _Bede: On the Temple_, tr. Seán Connolly with intro by Jennifer O'Reilly. Translated Texts for Historians, 21. (Liverpool Univ. Press, 1995). The plan is reproduced in a sketch as the frontispiece. One of course also thinks of "teaching devices" like the genealogy of Christ (inscribed with written genealogy and also images/pictura) devised for teaching by Peter of Poitiers (c 12). It will be interesting to see what others say about this quotation. There may some useful/interesting texts in works from cathedral and/or monastic schools. best Grover Grover A. Zinn William H. Danforth Professor of Religion (emeritus) former Associate Dean, College of Arts and Sciences Oberlin College Oberlin, OH 44074 440-775-8866 (department) [log in to unmask] On Jul 24, 2008, at 1:26 PM, jbugslag wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and > culture > > >> [p. 713, #3000] >> Iuvenes quoque et pueros quos...sapidos invenit, per diversa scolarum >> studia cirucumquaque dispertivit; quorum certe postea servimine >> variam >> ac multiplicem suae ecclesiae utilitatem **in lectione scriptura et >> pictura** ac plurali honestiori clericalis officii disciplina >> conquisivit. >> >> >> i take this to mean that the saintly bishop taught the young >> (soon-to-be) clerics under his care (perhaps even including the >> author >> of the Vita) to "read text [/writings, or perhaps, Scripture] and >> pictures [/images]..." > > Christopher, > Off the top of my head, this is something one associates more with > Hugh of St Victor and the > other Victorines of the 12th century. It seems a bit perplexing to > come across such an idea > so much earlier than that. At that date, it is more usual to find > references to images as the > "books of the illiterate" in relation to Pope Gregory the Great's > pronouncements, but that is > clearly not what is involved here. > Cheers, > Jim > > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] > To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion > to: [log in to unmask] > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] > For further information, visit our web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html