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Hi, Good points. Apache Lenya [ http://lenya.apache.org/ ] is designed to be both of these layers as well as the bridge between them. Essentially, it allows one cleanly to store arbritrary XML data (e.g., XML data valid as far as the MDA Spectrum XML Schema is concerned) within a filesystem yet offers round-trip WYSIWYG browser-based (et al.) editing of that content as well as serving it up via. XSLT as HTML (et al.) to disparate clients. Were larger institutions within the museum community to work together on assisting with Lenya development, it could quickly become the "Holy Grail" of combined Collections / Content Management Systems. It's used by the Pentagon. Regards, James On Tue, 22 Jul 2008, Cristiano Bianchi | Keepthinking wrote: > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:27:34 +0100 > From: Cristiano Bianchi | Keepthinking <[log in to unmask]> > Reply-To: Museums Computer Group <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [MCG] CMS specifications > > Paul, James, > > I think one of the keys here, and throughout this discussion, is 'design'. > You decide what you want to do with your collections (and museum/organisation > website), design it in full and then, only then, think about > technology/delivery. > > We constantly try and test extensively a good number of CMS solutions, such > as Drupal, Joomla, Typo3, ExpressionEngine, Wordpress, IBM Websphere and > more. > > Most of them are really good products (with maybe the exception of > Websphere...), with different degrees of complexity. They all also have their > own unique philosophy, and a way of 'thinking' of the interrelationships > between content and presentation. They generally struggle when needing to > integrate with separate repositories - such as collections - that, because of > their wider scope needs, require a separate software solution, like a > Collection Management System. > > The solution we have found - for now, as things evolve constantly - lays in > having two *completely* separate layers: > - Managing abstract content, including collections and other external assets. > - presenting content, in context, using high-level frameworks, rather than > template systems. > > It would seem obvious, but most CMS we have tested - and I'd like to be > pointed in a different direction if I'm mistaken - organise content already > having in mind a website structure. If you're happy with that way of thinking > you have a winner. But if you require a lot of flexibility and multiple > delivery channels, you may find that the effort of customising a 'ready-made' > solution is quite a demanding one. > > Kind regards, Cristiano > > > > On 21 Jul 2008, at 15:49, Paul Groves wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Bert Degenhart Drenth >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> Hi James, >>> >>> Can you make clear what the CMS TLA means to you? >>> >>> a) Content Management System >>> b) Collection Management System >>> c) Customer Management System (this is probably not the one you mean, >>> since the abbreviation CRM is more common) >>> >>> All three are different and all three are relevant for museums >> >> Also, if you want to deliver your digitised collections online to the >> public, then your "backend" Collection Management System may well be >> used as your primary data source for this, but they aren't necessarily >> designed to actually *do* the online delivery, and even if they do >> have an online version, the "off-the-shelf" ones I've seen so far seem >> fairly limited and not easy or even impossible to customise further. >> Also, a typical general purpose web Content Management System (e.g. >> Joomla, Drupal etc.), does not seem to be very appropriate for this >> job either, where you may want to have lots of flexibility in the way >> users search for and browse your collections. The alternative of >> getting developers (whether in-house or out-sourced) to develop a >> bespoke system for delivering your online collections would in theory >> give you the most flexibility in terms of being able to deliver >> exactly what you want, especially if you want a site with lots of >> innovative features - but at what cost, both in terms of development >> time/money/risk and in maintaining the system over the long term? >> These are all issues we're struggling with at the moment and there >> doesn't seem to be a simple answer... Was actually thinking of running >> a poll to see what approaches different museums have used to deliver >> their collections online to the public (which is not necessarily the >> same as maintaining a more general museum website) and the pros/cons >> of each... >> >> NB: I would happily stand corrected if anyone can suggest a flexible, >> well-supported (either by its user/developer community or a >> corporation) system that can easily be expanded and that is well >> suited to deliver the complex, inter-related data involved in deliver >> museum collections online to the public.... >> >> Paul >> >> -- >> Paul Groves, Project Manager >> AMEAD Project, Dept. of Eastern Art >> Ashmolean Museum, Beaumont Street, Oxford, OX1 2PH. UK >> T: +44 (0)1865 278289 >> W: http://www.ashmolean.org/ >> >> For disclaimer, see http://www.ashmolean.org/email/ > > -- > > Cristiano Bianchi > Keepthinking > > Bull Inn Court > 15 Maiden Lane > London WC2E 7NG > > t. +44 20 7240 8014 > f. +44 20 7240 8015 > m. +44 7939 041169 (uk) > m. +39 329 533 4469 (it) > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > ************************************************** > For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list, visit the > website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk > ************************************************** -- Your object is to save the world, while still leading a pleasant life. “It’s easier for our software to compete with Linux when there’s piracy than when there’s not,” Microsoft’s chairman, Bill Gates, told Fortune magazine last year [2007]. What's that [ http://search.microsoft.com/ ] site running? Link: http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://search.microsoft.com Answer: ... Linux. 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