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Oh, Anny, we too have our "inherited hierarchies and stolen power" -- they do not take long to develop! jd On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Anny Ballardini <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Thank you Joseph, I did not really want to be controversial, but wished to > point out more or less how I have been spending the latest decade or so. > And > my arguing was more connected to a sort of Italian (international) world > still glooming in the darkness of medieval dust (see inherited hierarchies > and stolen power) rather than open to the (Poundian, or non Poundian) new, > the new being at present, the Internet. > > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > Anny, understood. I think I should feel as you do, but long training is > > hard > > to overcome. I think, at its simplest, it is a matter of the editorial > > function. Which -- as your own site demonstrates -- can be exercised on > the > > web. I'm just talking about a gut-level feeling that if it's not printed > in > > a book or journal, it isn't real. Partly, too, this is because books have > > saved me so many times in my life, especially when I was young. And I, > too, > > read a lot on the web, with profit, though poetry not so much as prose. > > > > jd > > > > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Anny Ballardini < > > [log in to unmask]> > > wrote: > > > > > Opps, > > > I think that Internet publishing is a publication, the fact that it is > > > "virtual" instead of "real" does not affect me that much. It even > partly > > > appeases my guilty feelings for the destruction of trees to buy paper > and > > > stack it in my library bursting new books I have not had the time to > read > > > until now. And I do read a lot on the net, instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > > > > Ed, ouch! I guess the internet is a "literary catheter" & you're > right > > I > > > > don't really believe internet publication is "real" publication (I > > know, > > > I > > > > know), but yeah the cure is to keep on writing & writing to think. I > > > hardly > > > > know what I think until I have written it & the poem, lyric or > > narrative, > > > > for me, is a mode of thought. I think that's what it's good for, to > > sort > > > of > > > > go back to Stephen'[s original question. The structures & > constructions > > > > required to make a poem offer a resistance to the chaos of sense > > > > impressions > > > > / impingements involved in living. The poem is how we map where & > what > > we > > > > are. OK, I get that much. Why, then, should any kind of publication > be > > > > required? (I think I have something like an answer to this question, > > but > > > am > > > > curious what others will say.) > > > > > > > > jd > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 2:46 PM, edward mycue <[log in to unmask]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > joseph, the "condition" (of not having recent poems accepted) may > > have > > > > much > > > > > to do with the changeover from the exclusively written publication > > > > sources > > > > > to the broader internet (which we "accept" but really don't believe > > in > > > as > > > > > much as even publication of very small press magazine publication > > > issues > > > > > that were likened often to kleenex--used and discarded--). ARE YOU > > SURE > > > > IT'S > > > > > RUST? says the little cockroach on the keyboard when my genie from > > > > between > > > > > my ears suggested pensively that i'd slowed as i maundred dawdling > > abt > > > > what > > > > > to do fustigating my failing self-regard in great danger of > becoming > > > > > annihilating narcissism and blaming it on age-deprived oils of > youth. > > > > > > > > > > of course i counter: just press on regardless! > > > > > but does work truthfully? my inner george carlin parries & thrusts. > > > > > > > > > > i think it's physical: think of bladder infection when you have a > > > > > bladderful. forcing is not the answer here. you need the literary > > > > > equivalent of a catheter perhaps. (what would that be?) > > > > > > > > > > keep writing?! yes! (but keep at near remove a device to relieve > > > > > remembering the lawrence fixel comparison of poets' having the > > > imaginary > > > > > carrot and imaginary stick vs. the real carrot and stick that > writers > > > of > > > > > plays, screenplays, & other narratives have.) > > > > > > > > > > edward mycue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 6/28/08, Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > From: Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> > > > > > Subject: Re: The lyric poem - what be its current fate? > > > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 6:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > *Stephen writes:* "Without this surrounding labor of critical > > > community, > > > > so > > > > > many often extraordinarily fine lyric poems - let alone larger > forms. > > - > > > > end > > > > > up fleeting around, or become paralysed in a kind of statuary > limbo. > > > They > > > > > may vibrantly appear in a small publication, then disappear as > > readily. > > > > For > > > > > the poet it takes a fierce stubbornness to put up with can appear > as > > an > > > > > almost instant annihilation or a perennial sense of being 'not > quite > > > dead > > > > > on > > > > > arrival'." > > > > > > > > > > This has certainly been my recent experience, both as reader and > > > writer. > > > > > Poets have almost always worked the liminal edges of American > > culture, > > > > but > > > > > the edges seem to have become cliffs in recent decades, with poets > & > > > > poems > > > > > dropping out sight leaving hardly a trace -- not even a fading > > cartoon > > > > > scream followed by a thud & a puff of dust. That would be > something, > > at > > > > > least. Stephen is right, I think, to note the effect of recent > > American > > > > > politics on all kind of cultural habits, the trend starts before > > Bush's > > > > > completely demoralizing presidency. The country seems mostly dead > to > > > me, > > > > > without affect, lost in a vaguely buzzing media haze in which the > > idea > > > of > > > > a > > > > > lyric poem has no place. > > > > > > > > > > Speaking for myself, I've come to think of the poems I'm writing > now > > as > > > > > posthumous works. After a career of moderate success getting my > stuff > > > > > published, nobody will take what I'm writing now. Maybe I've just > > > > > become a > > > > > terrible writer after turning 55, or maybe my moment has simply > > passed. > > > > In > > > > > any case, I figure I'll keep at it until I hit 60 in three years > and > > > > unless > > > > > something changes in the reception of my work, I'll turn my full > > > > attention > > > > > to gardening and cooking and leave poetry to others. > > > > > > > > > > jd > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Joseph Duemer > > > > > Professor of Humanities > > > > > Clarkson University > > > > > Weblog: sharpsand.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Joseph Duemer > > > > Professor of Humanities > > > > Clarkson University > > > > Weblog: sharpsand.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Anny Ballardini > > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > > > star! > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Joseph Duemer > > Professor of Humanities > > Clarkson University > > Weblog: sharpsand.net > > > > > > -- > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > -- Joseph Duemer Professor of Humanities Clarkson University Weblog: sharpsand.net