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Thank you Joseph, I did not really want to be controversial, but wished to point out more or less how I have been spending the latest decade or so. And my arguing was more connected to a sort of Italian (international) world still glooming in the darkness of medieval dust (see inherited hierarchies and stolen power) rather than open to the (Poundian, or non Poundian) new, the new being at present, the Internet. On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Anny, understood. I think I should feel as you do, but long training is > hard > to overcome. I think, at its simplest, it is a matter of the editorial > function. Which -- as your own site demonstrates -- can be exercised on the > web. I'm just talking about a gut-level feeling that if it's not printed in > a book or journal, it isn't real. Partly, too, this is because books have > saved me so many times in my life, especially when I was young. And I, too, > read a lot on the web, with profit, though poetry not so much as prose. > > jd > > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Anny Ballardini < > [log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > Opps, > > I think that Internet publishing is a publication, the fact that it is > > "virtual" instead of "real" does not affect me that much. It even partly > > appeases my guilty feelings for the destruction of trees to buy paper and > > stack it in my library bursting new books I have not had the time to read > > until now. And I do read a lot on the net, instead. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > Ed, ouch! I guess the internet is a "literary catheter" & you're right > I > > > don't really believe internet publication is "real" publication (I > know, > > I > > > know), but yeah the cure is to keep on writing & writing to think. I > > hardly > > > know what I think until I have written it & the poem, lyric or > narrative, > > > for me, is a mode of thought. I think that's what it's good for, to > sort > > of > > > go back to Stephen'[s original question. The structures & constructions > > > required to make a poem offer a resistance to the chaos of sense > > > impressions > > > / impingements involved in living. The poem is how we map where & what > we > > > are. OK, I get that much. Why, then, should any kind of publication be > > > required? (I think I have something like an answer to this question, > but > > am > > > curious what others will say.) > > > > > > jd > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 2:46 PM, edward mycue <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > > > > joseph, the "condition" (of not having recent poems accepted) may > have > > > much > > > > to do with the changeover from the exclusively written publication > > > sources > > > > to the broader internet (which we "accept" but really don't believe > in > > as > > > > much as even publication of very small press magazine publication > > issues > > > > that were likened often to kleenex--used and discarded--). ARE YOU > SURE > > > IT'S > > > > RUST? says the little cockroach on the keyboard when my genie from > > > between > > > > my ears suggested pensively that i'd slowed as i maundred dawdling > abt > > > what > > > > to do fustigating my failing self-regard in great danger of becoming > > > > annihilating narcissism and blaming it on age-deprived oils of youth. > > > > > > > > of course i counter: just press on regardless! > > > > but does work truthfully? my inner george carlin parries & thrusts. > > > > > > > > i think it's physical: think of bladder infection when you have a > > > > bladderful. forcing is not the answer here. you need the literary > > > > equivalent of a catheter perhaps. (what would that be?) > > > > > > > > keep writing?! yes! (but keep at near remove a device to relieve > > > > remembering the lawrence fixel comparison of poets' having the > > imaginary > > > > carrot and imaginary stick vs. the real carrot and stick that writers > > of > > > > plays, screenplays, & other narratives have.) > > > > > > > > edward mycue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 6/28/08, Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > From: Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> > > > > Subject: Re: The lyric poem - what be its current fate? > > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 6:11 AM > > > > > > > > *Stephen writes:* "Without this surrounding labor of critical > > community, > > > so > > > > many often extraordinarily fine lyric poems - let alone larger forms. > - > > > end > > > > up fleeting around, or become paralysed in a kind of statuary limbo. > > They > > > > may vibrantly appear in a small publication, then disappear as > readily. > > > For > > > > the poet it takes a fierce stubbornness to put up with can appear as > an > > > > almost instant annihilation or a perennial sense of being 'not quite > > dead > > > > on > > > > arrival'." > > > > > > > > This has certainly been my recent experience, both as reader and > > writer. > > > > Poets have almost always worked the liminal edges of American > culture, > > > but > > > > the edges seem to have become cliffs in recent decades, with poets & > > > poems > > > > dropping out sight leaving hardly a trace -- not even a fading > cartoon > > > > scream followed by a thud & a puff of dust. That would be something, > at > > > > least. Stephen is right, I think, to note the effect of recent > American > > > > politics on all kind of cultural habits, the trend starts before > Bush's > > > > completely demoralizing presidency. The country seems mostly dead to > > me, > > > > without affect, lost in a vaguely buzzing media haze in which the > idea > > of > > > a > > > > lyric poem has no place. > > > > > > > > Speaking for myself, I've come to think of the poems I'm writing now > as > > > > posthumous works. After a career of moderate success getting my stuff > > > > published, nobody will take what I'm writing now. Maybe I've just > > > > become a > > > > terrible writer after turning 55, or maybe my moment has simply > passed. > > > In > > > > any case, I figure I'll keep at it until I hit 60 in three years and > > > unless > > > > something changes in the reception of my work, I'll turn my full > > > attention > > > > to gardening and cooking and leave poetry to others. > > > > > > > > jd > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Joseph Duemer > > > > Professor of Humanities > > > > Clarkson University > > > > Weblog: sharpsand.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Joseph Duemer > > > Professor of Humanities > > > Clarkson University > > > Weblog: sharpsand.net > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Anny Ballardini > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > > star! > > > > > > -- > Joseph Duemer > Professor of Humanities > Clarkson University > Weblog: sharpsand.net > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star!