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Terry Terry, Terry I see this as relating to an emergent field, not the just the epistemological biases of 'art and design' design and 'engineering' design. The other day I marked an essay that said "New Zealand manufacturing is declining due to the lack of young people choosing manufacturing as a profession". The salient point is that students have not always been imagined to be choosers of a profession. In fact it wasn't too long ago that a whole educational apparatus existed so that individuals did NOT need to decide which profession they were suited for. A very truncated argument would be that governmental technologies that people today have to engage with, in order to become self-responsible citizens, help to make them into 'creative' subjects. These days, students have no option but to choose for themselves and in terms of prior assemblages they often make choices that seem wrong. This is partly because of media and the star system, as Juris says. Also, I think, due to the co-creation strategies of consumer brands (such as Apple). Evidence of this is that creative education is growing, while science and technology education is shrinking (relatively speaking of course). It's almost funny to see governments jumping up and down saying we must have more SET education, because the more mechanisms that are put in place to facilitate this choice, the more some people want to realise a desire to do something creative. Governmentality helps to explain how this works, and how people come to desire the kind of casualised, hyper-flexible yet highly-skilled work that creative industries depend upon. I would be interested in the subjectivities of professionally practicing engineering designers. Do they need to express and realise their creative 'inner qualities' in the same way as the 'art and design' designers do? If not, does this have anything to do with an ability to gain employment within a manufacturing industry, and have the satisfaction of regular wages to be able to realise themselves in leisure? Does this have anything to do with gender? I don't know if this answers your question! Amanda Amanda Bill Lecturer, Fashion & Textile Design College of Creative Arts Massey University, Wellington Telephone 644 801 2794 xt 6886 -----Original Message----- From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Terence Love Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2008 12:58 p.m. To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Design-Art Dear Amanda and Juris, I'm interested in how you see that your analyses fit with the disciplines of engineering design (mechanical, mechatronic, software, computing etc)? All involve creativity, culturally-based organisations, economic development etc and are closely linked with art and aesthetic except for a short period in the late 20th century. All regard design as a collaborative endeavour vital to new forms of capitalist enterprise. One aspect of the difference between professional practices in engineering design fields and 'art and design' design (and this may be fundamentally important in terms of epistemological biases in research in this area) is that engineering design outcomes are rarely associated with the individual designers, and, the huge amount of engineering design that is the primary basis of most products is relatively hidden or (if designed sucessfully) so unobtrusive as to be overlooked. For example, there are very few poepl who would know the name of the engineering designers that designed the engine control system in their car or are aware of the sophistication and importance of that computerised engine management system in environmental terms? Another example is that it is usually not at the front of consumers (or many designers ) minds that most of the design of popular devices such as the iPod was undertaken by engineering designers. Hence on one hand in the engeering design realms, there are typically 'no stars' and on the other hand 'the bulk of the design work is not seen by consumers/users' . Does this imply a parallel and different process to the governmentality explanations you have developed for 'art and design' design, or is it included in your explanations? Terry -----Original Message----- From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Juris Milestone Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2008 3:03 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Design-Art Amanda, Yes, in a recent article I briefly explored a related contradiction (between 'creative genius' and design-for-all) within the US popular media's handling of the idea of design: "Design as Power: Paul Virilio and the Governmentality of Design Expertise" http://www.informaworld.com/openurl?genre=article&issn=1473-5784&volume=48&i ssue=2&spage=175 Basically, I say that in the media, at least, there is no perceived contradiction or conflict between the two and I believe this is accomplished largely through the pairing of the star system (famous designers or architects) with the glorification of the consumer in contemporary capitalist society (the 'democratization of design' is often invoked here as well). These two areas work together to form a kind of symbiosis between market rules and the populace, thereby resolving the contradiction through a neat interdependence, and ultimately contributing to the 'governing' (organization) of modern liberal democratic societies/populations. Juris On Jun 3, 2008, at 4:16 PM, Bill, Amanda wrote: > Hi Dan and Juris, > I've investigated 'creativity' as governmentality. Am just about to > submit my PhD thesis on it. I've taken it as a category of subjective > identification and an object of educational governance in fashion > design. From a discourse theory perspective (Laclau - Essex school), I > take 'creativity' is a nodal point that unifies previously > antagonistic views. Within various cultural organisations including > economic development agencies and universities, moves to strengthen a > liberal agenda and retain creativity as a form of 'arts knowledge' > with high cultural capital have been rubbing up against strategies to > enlist and develop more universal concepts about creativity as a > collaborative endeavour, vital to new forms of capitalist enterprise. > An outcome of the resulting creativity discourse is that the 'idea of > design' and the 'idea of art' tend to shift about, somewhat. > You're right, this needs further examination. > > Amanda > College of Creative Arts > Massey University > Wellington, NZ > > ________________________________________ > From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and > related research in Design [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of > Juris Milestone [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2008 8:28 a.m. > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Design-Art > > Dan, > > This facet of design is, I think, under examined - that is, what the > 'idea of design' is outside of professional or academic claims, and > how this is important. I think we ought to allow for an analysis of > this idea (design) as a "total social fact", along the lines of Mauss' > gift, or a technology of governmentality along the lines of Foucault, > or class and taste along the lines of Bourdieu's field of position > takings. > > Design in mass media and consumer culture is a powerful force that is > shaped outside the purviews of professional designers, design > researchers, and other design academics, and yet has a huge influence > on those very areas. > > Juris Milestone > > > On Jun 2, 2008, at 9:00 AM, Daniel Huppatz wrote: > >> Dear list >> >> There are always interesting discussions about the definitions of >> design on this list, and I thought list members might be interested >> in my recent mapping of contemporary design & consumerism. Outside of >> design education institutes and design studios, the meaning of the >> term design seems to me to be narrowing rather than expanding. Most >> recently, design seems to have become associated ever more closely >> with art - or Design-Art >> - as discussed by Alice Rawthorn in the IHT here. I think this >> pheonomenon has serious implications for designers and the way design >> is perceived. I've blogged it here as part of an ongoing series of >> essays about contemporary design and consumerism, Signs of Design. >> Any comments or ideas from listees most welcome. >> >> Thanks >> Dan Huppatz